Issue No. 312 - Friday, November 26, 2004
Moderated by: Thurmond Moore III
Committed to carrying on the fine works of
Hale Sweeny and Jerry Dewbre
Hi everyone,

I hope everyone is enjoying their Thanksgiving
holiday. Have a great weekend.
Enjoy the list.

Index to Today's Digest

01  RE: Trying to locate GRIEGER'S, Inc.
02  RE: Slab saw vise
03  RE: Trying to locate GRIEGER'S, Inc.
04  RE: removal of saw lube
05  RE: Faceting competition
06  RE: Faceting competition
07  RE: Saw Lubes
08  NEW: rough in India
09  NEW: Removal of Sawing Lubricant from slabs
10  NEW: Faceting competition
11  NEW: Truth in advertising


Subject: Re: Trying to locate GRIEGER'S, Inc.
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 19:52:54 -0500
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com (LapidaryArtsDigest)
From: Carol J. Bova <bova@bovagems.com>

Grieger's went out of business several years back... There was no
information at the time about where they went, but the business ended
then.  There was a sheriff's auction of fixtures and materials from a
warehouse, and that was the end of Griegers.
Carol J. Bova


Subject: Slab saw vise
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:02:34 -0500
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com (LapidaryArtsDigest)
From: "Jonathan L. Rolfe" <jon@gearloose.com>

At 05:46 PM 11/22/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>Subject: Slab saw vise
>Perhaps I'm too new to lapidary work, but after three years I ran
>across an aide to using the vise in my 10" slab saw.  I had so much
>aggrivation in getting odd pieces to hold in the vise.  Finally I stopped
>on the roadside and picked up a chunk of blown out truck tire.

When I had a cab business years ago, for smaller rough like Botswana Agate
(A favorite of mine and the customers!) and carnelian, etc. I simply took
the rocks, a one gallon cardboard milk carton, and cast them in a block of
plaster of Paris.
Then I just slabbed up the "Big" stone.  The thin slices fell apart easily,
but the block stayed in one piece.
I STILL have the 16" Black Blazer from 1977, so it did not mess the blade
up at all.


Subject: Griegers
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:39:51 -0800
To: LapidaryArtsDigest <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "T.A.Masters" <tam2819@cox.net>

Sorry to tell you Griegers is long out of business. There are many
alternative companies, Rio Grande, for one. I'm certain you will get
other recommendations also. good luck.


Subject: removal of saw lube
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:27:28 -0500
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: "Don Sommerfield" <dlsomm@hotmail.com>

There are tow things  that work to remove oil from a cut rock:
1. kitty litter
2. Oil dry from a janitors supply co.
I use kitty litter as it is easy to buy .



Subject: faceting competitions
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:17:24 -0500
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: Jim Perkins <jperkins@ohio.net>

Hi Wayne and All,
Since I compete I'll try to give my perspective at least. I have
competed in the USFG single stone competition which is a closed
competition. Otherwise you must be a USFG member to compete. You can
enter any class you chose initially however, you will be judged by
strict rules on conformance to their physical specifications and also
finish. They specify the size, pattern and material for each class. A
person may only enter one class. Once certified you may move to the nex
level. Or you may remain in the same level until you win first, second
or third place. Then I believe you must advance. Please check their
current rules for specifics. I just have a hard time trying to keep up
sometimes. Regarding the AFMS competition... which I have not
participated in, yet. However, I have read the rules. That is a "case
competition" this is much different. I believe you must exibit 25 stones
total. One must be 3 mm diameter. Otherwise it is pretty open. The idea
is does the "total display" create a theme of interest to the general
public and other lapidaries. This is a point often missed by single
stone competition promoters. Judges will not likely judge every stone in
the display for conformity etc. However, they will likely examine some.
Probably not as close and critical as the USFG. Both competitions have
merit in my opinion. In either case you want to do the best you can as
in my opinion again. Competitons are not against the other entrants.
It's about your own improvement. First obtain current rules from any
competition. Then work on your stone or display. If a display, find a
theme and work with it. Then make your presentation unique. There is
less room for creativity in single stone competitions. They are like
horseshoes and hand grenades. Its either a ringer or close and close
only counts within minimum certification limits. The most important
aspect is to have a good time and to improve your own skills through the
Good Luck,
Jim Perkins


Subject: Faceting Competition
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:47:59 -0800 (PST)
To: LAPIDARY ARTS & FACETERS DIGEST <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: Glenn Klein <glennklein@yahoo.com>

Hi Everyone:
Wayne is interested in entering faceting competitions.  I am glad
to hear that, especially when he wants to know more about case
of stones competition.  It is a shame these days that one can
attend most gem shows or guild shows and not see a case of
faceted stones.  It used to be that there were always several
competition cases as well as cases of faceted stones that
someone just wanted to show for the public's interest.  That
is a great way to get new people started at learning how to
facet....just by seeing a beautiful case filled with faceted stones.
Wayne asked what the best cut designs would be for entering
a case of stones.  I do not think that there are Best designs. 
Of course, a case full of stones that were all the standard round
brilliant would be more boring to the viewers.  It is best to show
a variety of cut designs.  Have a variety of sizes, outlines, and
colors.  This demonstrates to the viewers that the faceter has
worked with a variety of materials and designs.  If your case is
to be judged, read my article available on the OPLC disc and
the USFG website as well as other newsletters....called How
To Go From Novice To World Class.  Case competitions bring
in a bunch of other than faceting talents.  You need cleanliness,
accuracy of labels, risers in the case, and on and on.  The judges
will usually pull three to five stones out of the case for close inspection. 
Just follow the rules to the letter of the competition that you decide
to enter.
If your rutilated stone is a beauty, leave it in the case.  If it is taken
out of the case or used in single stone compeitions for judging, the
judge will find the inclusions that break the surface to be distracting. 
It depends upon what kind of competition you are entering, when
you consider which materials to show in your case.  If the competition
calls for at least forty stones, do not put in sixty.  The case would be
too crowded.  And you want just your very best forty stones to be
seen by the judge.
Some contests require just twelve stones, some maybe 40 stones,
so do what is required.  I worked so hard with prongs to hold the
stones in my early cases, and I did damage to the stones each time
I brought wire to stone.  So forget prongs if you can.  Just lay the
beautiful well-cleaned stone on your risers that are covered with
WHITE not any other color velvet or soft fabric.  Have your labels
small, accurate, and not distracting to the whole display.
I could go on and on.
Good Luck Wayne, and others interested in competition faceting.
Glenn Klein, USFG Historian
Lake Forest, CA  USA


Subject: RE: Saw Lubes
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:33:26 -0500
To: "LapidaryArtsDigest" <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Hunt, Jerry Max" <MAXHUNT@bsu.edu>

Thurmond and all...I too have been looking for alternatives to oil.  I
had thought of using soluble oil such as that used in industrial
machining.  Again, I'm not sure about blade life but it seems that if it
can cool and lubricate in a metal lathe or milling machine, it should
work in a rock saw.  Anyone have any experience with soluble oil??
BTW, what are the active ingredients in RV Antifreeze?
Max Hunt
Muncie, IN


Subject: rough in India
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 22:18:27 -0800 (PST)
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: msteven doyle <manoharan108@yahoo.com>

Beside the general conditions of India. I'm leaving
Tuesday for a three month stay and wondered if any one
can recommend sourced of lapidary and facet rough in
India. Thanks, Steven Doyle


Subject: quality stuff
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 03:10:33 -0700
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "jake" <efjke@msn.com>

I saw this on another list in reference to something being sold on Ebay.
exercise in futility, they can facet granite, too." There was more and a
link was provided.

Unfortunately I guess this was too much even for Ebay and they pulled it
(I may have a warped sense of humor, I wanted to see it.) That got me to
thinking that it is to bad that we can not name companies for them, such
as "the silver finger," or "fly by night rock," and such. Or at least
add a little pirate flag. Providing company slogans could also be apt,
"quality, not a problem, we don't know what it is." Granted not all are
like that but to put it kindly you almost need waders to navigate
through the bull.

Hi Jake,  I have been known to contact sellers on e-bay to point out
that they might be uninformed at best and crooks at worst. I have also
purchased a token quantity of "gravel" in order to leave feedback
to warn those who take the time to look.


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