Issue No. 263 - Monday, January 19, 2004
Moderated by: Thurmond Moore III
Committed to carrying on the fine works of
Hale Sweeny and Jerry Dewbre
Hi All,

Good list today, Keep those post coming in.

Good news. The domain name facetersdigest.org
is back in my posession but for now will also point to


Index to Today's Digest

01  RE: Preforming
02  RE: Preforming
03  RE: Preforming
04  RE: Preforming
05  RE: Girdle cutting with a Raytech Shaw Faceter
06  RE: Girdle cutting with a Raytech Shaw Faceter
07  NEW: Raytech Shaw Faceter Value
08  FS: Raytech Shaw Faceter
09  NEW: Charging and Using All-U-Need Polish Pads
10  RE: Tucson Hob Knob


Subject: Reducing Stone Size
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:20:47 -0500
To: "LapidaryArtsDigest" <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Peter In Maine" <kulaczp@pivot.net>

Ah.,,,  the hard part of faceting...........Take it down on a low grit lap
or grinding wheel and then try to  fix all the fractures caused by the

I personally  try to use a thin  6 inch diamond saw blade attached to my
facet machine to initially cut the junk out of the stone . It ain't easy and
my fingers get a bit tired and the rocks fly off into space at times......
but it is convenient and I don't need to get up and use my rock saw.  I then
produce a flat on the stone for dopping. Perferably  going from a 260 lap to
a 1200 lap......

I then chuck it up and put my machine quill into free rotation at the
highest angle necessary.  I don't roll it around but rather dig it in at
different spots and get the stone down that way. The girdle is always the
hardest ,  but if the girdle ain't accurate .. oh oh..

I finished up a 2 carat amethyst yesterday,  the stone started out at around
25 carats and all over the place.........Not much return on this bugger but
it had feathers everywhere.....

Peter.....................only 3 below tonight.........Heat  Wave


Subject: Re: Preforming
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 08:49:03 -0500
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com (LapidaryArtsDigest)
From: mskelly <mskelly@gte.net>

         Bill inquired about "how people get a crystal ground down near to
faceting size and shape," commenting that it can take forever.
         Yup. It can, it has and it does. I use various alternatives as
needed. Sometimes I will take the stone over to a cabbing machine and grind
it into a better shape. Sometimes I do this before dopping, sometimes
after. With some more costly stones that I want to facet into a shape not
suited for that stone in particular, I will use a trim saw. For maximum
recovery of material unneeded for the cut, I will replace the lap with a
saw blade and rough in the pavilion using the indexes and angles given in
the cutting instructions.
         In almost all cases, I only rough in the pavilion since the crown
doesn't take as long to rough in. If necessary, I will trim-saw what will
become the table.
         I find that it can save time to grind some pavilion facets before
attempting to shape the girdle because I can use a faster lap speed.

mike in West Coast Florida


Subject: Re: Preforming Thread
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 18:06:24 -0800
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: Dennis.Anderson@djanderson.net

Bill wrote:

Hi Thurmond   How about a new thread on how people get a crystal ground

down near to faceting size and shape? I am probably missing the boat but

for me I use a 260 and just grind on the ultra tech at the diagram
angles until the stone gets close to size/shape...then I go to finer
laps. It takes FOREVER! How do you guys who know how to cut do it? 

Hello Bill, I was a little surprised to hear that you felt that it takes
forever to perform with a 260.  I have both a fairly new 260 and an older
worn one and both cut very fast.  A 260 is quite a bit too rough for most
materials and on stones that are going to cut under 10 mm., I would not
recommend using it at all.  A 360 grit is much better because of subsurface

For larger stones, I use the 260 to just shape the stone to near correct
proportions roughly following the major facets in the design.  Once it is
in roughly the correct proportion, I move to a 360 cutting lap.  Depending
upon the size of the stone it might be better to move to 600 or 1200 to
actually fully cut the stone's pattern.  This is enough cutting to remove
the subsurface damage of the 360 lap.

Personally, I haven't found that the materials wear the Crystalite laps
badly and although they are expensive, I don't have a grinding wheel to
use instead.  I don't have enough room to have too much lapidary equipment.
 I use a diamond saw on my faceting machine instead of a separate trim saw
for the same reason.

By the way, a trim saw is very handy for cutting material into the correct
sizes to cut decent gems.  Much rough is flawed enough to require trimming
first before any cutting is begun. 

I prefer to cut the design in at 600 or 1200, again depending upon the size
of the stone, to hand holding the stone on the lap and hand performing.
 If one isn't too rushed and gives the diamond time, the cutting time isn't
really that much longer cutting the pattern in right away versus doing a
hand held preform.  It also gives you a good measure early to see if the
chosen width of the stone is going to fit the vertical amount of material
so that the whole pattern can be cut ok.

If you have oriented the stone well in the beginning, there shouldn't be
too much fuss about performing.

Regards, Dennis Anderson in sunny Southern California


Subject: Preforming
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:46:39 -0500
To: "Lapidary Arts-faceting" <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Rock Peddler" <rockpeddler@comcast.net>

Hi Thurmond   How about a new thread on how people get a crystal ground
down near to faceting size and shape? I am probably missing the boat but
for me I use a 260 and just grind on the ultra tech at the diagram
angles until the stone gets close to size/shape...then I go to finer
laps. It takes FOREVER! How do you guys who know how to cut do it?

There are a couple of alternatives. One way is to make a preform on a
grinding wheel if you have a cabber. Another is to get a saw stabilizer and
use a 6" saw blade on your faceter to make a preform. The one made by Jarvi
Tool is much less expensive than the UT one. Another idea is to get an
inexpensive unmounted lap in a very coarse grit to hog off the material you
are now doing on your 260 lap. Caution is that using a coarse lap or even
grinding wheel will leave deeper scratches than desireable and may leave
minute hard to see fractures that go into your stone. These you will see
when you get to the polishing stage. The best alternative is the saw
stabilizer and blade - quick and it saves your 260 lap.
Jeanne Ridolfi - Rock Peddler
www.bestrough.com - See our new LOW prices for synthetics
800-416-4348; M-F, 10:30am - 4:30pm, eastern time


Subject: Re: Issue No. 262 - Friday, January 16, 2004
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 12:02:09 -0800
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com (LapidaryArtsDigest)
From: Don Rogers <Don@Campbell-gemstones.com>

At 09:35 PM 1/16/04 -0600, you wrote:
>Could the forum help out with this one when cutting the girdle I noticed
>that the index wheel was resting on the hand piece plate while the
>front foot of the hand piece was slightly above the plate.

Ron, the feet on the handpiece are adjustable and may be way out of
adjustment.  This affects all angles.  They may also be worn or have been
machined down too many times (Raytech's method of aligning the
handpiece).   If the handpiece has been sent back to Raytech for
adjustments or repair, they may have taken to much off the nylon part of
the screws.  The protractor could also be set off by a couple
degrees.  When the handpiece is set up correctly, you should have at least
0.030" clearance between the platform and the facet finder (which is
slightly larger diameter than the gear).

Take a look at my articles on the Raytech alignment.




Check out your machine alignment and the if you haven't resolved the
problem, contact me and we will work out a fix.



Subject: Re: Issue No. 262 - Friday, January 16, 2004
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:03:03 -0500
To: "LapidaryArtsDigest" <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Gary Henson" <henson9712@bellsouth.net>

Hi Ron,  if you are having the problem you stated all thee of your feet on
the hand piece need to be lowered to get the index gear off the ground.
First screw all of them down equally till the gear is up off the surface,
now put in a dop with clear quartz on it and grind a small flat.  Polish the
flat at 96 and turn the index to 48 and polish for a second and if you have
a straight line showing about half way down the flat from the front, the
front foot needs to be adjusted down a little, if there is no line you are
square. If there is a line after going from 96 to 48 from top right to
bottom left the back left foot need to be raised. Work with if and it will
be a simple thing to do and you will have to do it about twice a year. If
you cut a square at 45 degrees and end up with the first and fourth facet
not coming together you have the same problem a leg out of square and it
causes stair steps. do this till you get no line and your handpiece is
square. It is easier to work the back legs first then move to the front.
Also mark a spot on the edge of your platform so the front foot is setting
at the same spot on the platform, a small three sided filr works real well.

Gary Henson


Subject: ray tec facetor
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 09:15:25 -0800 (PST)
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: marvin johnson <marvj18@yahoo.com>

Could some one tell me what a 15 year old Ray Tech facetor would  sell for with 4
laps and transfer jig?   It has been in storage in south tx and I do not know the
condition of the bearings. I have been asked to make an offer and I have no idea as
to it's worth.
Thanks   Marvin Johnson  marvj18@yahoo.com


Subject: Raytech outfit for sale
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:00:46 -0800
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Frank Norman" <klamathon@snowcrest.net>

Good day to all,

I will soon put my Raytech outfit up for sale.  Before listing it on
E-bay, I would like to offer it to the faceting community by way of this
group and the USFG list.

If you are interested, Email me direct at   klamathon@snowcrest.net  and
I will provide a detailed list.  This is a good machine, only a little
over one year old.  It is cutting good stones now, but is very dependent
on good hearing which I do not have.

Frank Norman


Subject: Charging and Using All-U-Need Polish Pads
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:17:45 -0800
To: "LapidaryArtsDigest" <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Steven W. De Long" <sdelong@san.rr.com>

Hi All,

I've been using an All-U-Need machine for sometime.  Mostly opals, but other
stones as well.

One thing I'm noticing is that I have to charge my 14,000 pad each time a
polish a stone.  I usually put four or five small dabs rub it in and then
start polishing.  Most of the paste ends up on the stone where it gets wiped
off so I can see how the polish is progressing. (using 14,000 paste in a
syringe) Doesn't seem like I should have to charge it that often.  The pad
is basically some kind of synthetic felt, I think.

The only lubricant I use is dipping the stone in water.

I'm wondering:

1) How do others use similar pads?

2) When is a pad "worn out" and in need of replacement?

After the 14,000 diamond I go to 50,000 on a similar pad.  Occasionally I'll
finish up with cerium on the same type of pad.  With the cerium most of the
polish stays on the pad and not on the stone.

Thanks for your replies,

San Diego


Subject: RE: Issue No. 262 - Friday, January 16, 2004
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:23:16 -0500
To: "LapidaryArtsDigest" <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Naomi Sarna" <nsarna@earthlink.net>

To Glenn Klein
From Naomi in New York

Last year I came to the lapidary meeting in Tucson, but it took my friend
and I hours to find the club.  Please send instructions for people who have
no GPS. I do look forward to seeing all you gem folks again.  Regards from
the very cold Naomi


None Today








PERSONALS: (General Lapidary and Faceting)






Lurking is fine, but participation is better for learning !
Post something from your experiences in gemcutting today!

Subject: funny
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:48:57 -0200
To: LapidaryArtsDigest <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: Robert <robertplowejr@uol.com.br>

No Nursing Home for me!

No nursing home for me. I am checking into the Holiday
Inn! With the average cost for a nursing home per day reaching
$188.00, there is a better way when we get old & feeble. I have already
checked on reservations at the Holiday Inn.

For a combined long term stay discount and senior discount, it's
$49.23 per night. That leaves $138.77 a day for:

1. Breakfast, lunch and dinner in any restaurant I want, or room service

2. Laundry, gratuities and special TV movies.
Plus, they provide a swimming pool, a workout room, a lounge, washer,
dryer, etc. Most have free toothpaste and razors, and all have free
shampoo and soap. They treat you like a customer, not a patient. $5
worth of tips a day will have the entire staff scrambling to help you.

There is a city bus stop out front, and seniors ride
free. The handicap bus will also pick you up (if you fake a decent

To meet other nice people, call a church bus on
Sundays. For a change of scenery, take the airport shuttle bus and
eat at one of the nice restaurants there. While you're at the
airport, fly somewhere. Otherwise, the cash keeps building up.

It takes months to get into decent nursing homes.
Holiday Inn will take your reservation today.

And you are not stuck in one place forever, you can
move from Inn to Inn, or even from city to city. Want to see Hawaii?
They have a Holiday Inn there too.

TV broken? Light bulbs need changing? Need a mattress
replaced? No problem. They fix everything, and apologize for the

The Inn has a night security person and daily room
service. The maid checks to see if you are ok.

If you are not ok, they will call the undertaker or an ambulance.

If you fall and break a hip, Medicare will pay for the hip, and
Holiday Inn will upgrade you to a suite for the rest of your life.

And no worries about visits from family. They will always be glad to
find you,
and probably check in for a few days mini-vacation. The grandkids can
use the pool.
What more can you ask for?

So, when I reach the golden age I'll face it with a grin.

Just forward all my email to:  me@Holiday.Inn


Maybe it's true that life begins at fifty. But...everything else
starts to wear out, fall out, or spread out.



is produced by Thurmond Moore III

Tempie Francis, Attorney at Law / Legal Advisor


is never sent unsolicited.  You are receiving it
because you subscribed to it at our digest subscription page at:


To unsubscribe, just use the link below and follow the
instructions there:


List Posting Guidelines and rules can be found at:
Published about twice a week, except holidays
from Spur,Texas
Share your love of lapidary with everyone.