Issue No. 210 - Monday, September 22, 2003
Moderated by: Thurmond Moore III
Committed to carrying on the fine works of
Hale Sweeny and Jerry Dewbre
Hi All,

We have another Topical discussion for this week.
So put on your thinking caps and consider if you will


Perhaps the subject of Cutting Ovals could be made one of those weekly
forum subjects that we haven't had for some time. I'm sure it would be
of interest to lots of newbies and not-so-newbies.
Arch Morrison


Index to Today's Digest

01  RE: Imperial Topaz
02  RE: Imperial Topaz
03  RE: Imperial Topaz
04: RE: Imperial Topaz
05  RE: Optical Bonding
06  RE: Optical Bonding
07  RE: HR 2416: The Palentological Resources Preservation Act
08  NEW: Facet Designs
09  RE: Flex Shafts
10  RE: Flex Shafts
11  NEW: Cutting Ovals (Topic of the Week)
12  FS:  raytech Shaw for sale
13  FS:  Diamond Source


Subject: Re: Imperial Topaz
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:00:13 EDT
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: Cutugem@aol.com

George, I am not knowledgable enough to know if there is a source for
imperial topaz above all others but I have cut some and it cuts a beautiful
salmon/warmgolden glow. I would say cut a piece to correct dimentions and see what
happens. The rough I have is much lighter before cutting.   Dennis on the North


Subject: Topaz
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:40:10 -0700
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Woody" <gwwgem@astound.net>

If George Mathers topaz came from Topaz Mt. he should know that he
should not leave it out in the sun or bright light as it will fade to
clear. I believe it is more champaine than yellow. It will cut some nice
Woody from Concord, Ca.
P.S. Please everyone let us know what area you are in when you post.
That way people near you may be of more help to you.


Subject: Re: Issue No. 209 - Friday, September 19, 2003
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:22:02 -0400
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: Facets@aol.com

In a message dated 9/19/2003 6:39:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
lapidary@caprock-spur.com writes:

> I hope someone can help, I picked up a bag of yellow crystal Topaz from
> Utah. Is this the Imperial Topaz I have read about. Is it a
> more
> desirable Topaz than the blue and clear? Thanks.

The Utah topaz is beautiful, with an almost "flesh" color to it. It is NOT Imperial
Topaz, which is a purer orange to pink orange without the brown component. In
addition, most of the pinkish-brownish-yellowish topaz from Utah will fade with heat
or even light. Nice stones, but don't display 'em under the halogens.....

     Charles B. Johnston


Subject: Re: Topaz
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 07:25:58 -0700
To: "LapidaryArtsDigest" <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Donald Clark CSM" <admin@gemsociety.org>

Dear George,
   The yellow topaz you found will probably not qualify as Imperial. The
Utah material usually has a browning tint, where good Brazilian Imperial
is orangish, the more orange the better.
   You have to be careful with this material, as much of it is light
sensitive. Put some scraps out where they will get a full days sunshine.
They might fade to colorless in a day or two. If not, they are stable
and of some interest. If it fades, you need to disclose that and it's
value will be about the the same as colorless topaz.

Don Clark


Subject: re optical bonding
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:38:24 -0700
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: Webb Long <webblong@mindspring.com>

Hi All,  I have the best luck using 220 Epoxy Amber clear on dopping up gem
stones as it has better  holding power than 330 Epoxy Water clear. I have
used 220 on quartz caps utilizing the water clear quality. I have faceted
quite a few precious opal with a quartz cap using the 330. They are pretty
nice and have remained intact for many years. I have experimented with many
different brands but always return to the 330 & 220. Webb Long


Subject: Re: Optical bonding?
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 06:47:32 -0700
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: Phillip L Stonebrook <plstonebrook@juno.com>

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003, Dan Clayton asked:
<<What do you mean by "optically bond"? ..... Perhaps a zircon or CZ
doublet so you want the glue as close to the materials RI as possible?>>

Hi Dan...

I'm glad you asked!

Actually, I was thinking of doing a project I was approached with. As far
as I can decipher the project, it would involve cutting four identical
6mm square colorless CZ stones; just the girdles and 3 tiered step crowns
with tables, leaving very deep rough for the pavilions uncut (in the
girdle outline). These 4 stones would then be glued together (optically
bonded) with the girdles level, and then one pavilion would be cut on the
pavilion material of this 12mm square "composite" stone.

Evidently, someone did this as stated above, and sold some on eBay. In
the picture I saw, they looked "very unique", almost like 4 invisibly set
stones to form a square, but the single pavilion has been verified under
the ring mounting. I don't believe this crown was done (showing four 3
tiered step crowns) with concave cutting on a single piece of 12mm rough,
although that is a simple way to explain it's appearance.

Peter raises a good question .. Do I even need to find something with
matching high RI, or would 330 epoxy make an acceptable bond without
spoiling the internal optical performance of the CZ composite stone due
to glue line RI interference? The bond would go down the very center of
the composite stone to the culet, and extend to the corners of the
girdle, possibly also causing chipping problems.

I was thinking about trying it; of course, without the aid of any
optimizing programs, or is there some software out there that would give
angle vs returned light recommendations .. none to my knowledge for
stones with concave facets? This raises more questions .. what happens
when you tell GemRayX there ARE concave facets in the cut (it accepts a
yes to this prompt, and the fact it even asks, suggests some capability),
and what program would generate the composite stone cut (surely not
GemCad), or any concave cut, for that matter?

Best regards....
Phil in Florida .. where we "dodged a bullet" with Isabel; my prayers for
those "hit"!, and still with over 2 months of hurricane season left.


Subject: Re: big government
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:10:33 EDT
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: Cutugem@aol.com

I am saddened to hear we need to have even more "rules" in our lives. Seems
rules are only to tell people what they cannot do rather than rules saying it
is ok to do something. When I become president I am going to change all this. I
have for most of my 64 years collected fossils and arrowheads here in Ohio,
Texas and up around the Kinzua area of Pennsylvania. Took a fair share of
ordovocain shale out of West Virginia also. Sad that these will no longer be
collectable. As someone said a few posts ago this material will erode away and in a
few rainstorms what is on top will be dashed to pieces and lost forever.
Perhaps saner minds can prevail. Is there a possibility of a group getting in touch
with politicos and making a few ammendments?  I have been involved in racing
automobiles all my life also and now settle for a cruising lowride 39 buick. A
few years ago there was a huge push on to rid the nation of "junker" autos to
the point that local constabularies could impound non licensed autos. A drive
was put in place and we did manage to get some better sense written into the
bill. Hate to think all those cabs I cut of turtiglia may be ripped off
someones belt buckle. That could result in more exposure than any of us care to
witness.  Dennis on the North Coast


Subject: Facet Designs
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 21:27:48 -0500
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Wayne S. Barnett" <wayneb@ev1.net>

Does anyone have the link to the designs that were used in the competition
in June of this year in Ventura?  I let my copy get away and would like to
try my hand at cutting them.


Wayne in Houston


Subject: Flex Shaft / Dremel
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:55:16 -0400
To: "LapidaryArtsDigest" <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Peter In Maine" <kulaczp@pivot.net>

Just a quick note on the dremel...........I would definitely put a coffee
filter around the intake on any other dremel I would use where rock dust is
concerned. ....
Making up fountains this past year and using my dremel to even up stones to
fit in............well dead dremel...........
Flex shaft is theway to go..


Subject: Flex Shafts
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:26:40 -0400
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: "Douglas Turet" <anotherbrightidea@hotmail.com>

Jack wrote:
"Doug, Thanks for the flex-shaft info.  A LOT to absorb. I do have saws
and a Genie to get rid of the excess matrix. And having finished my
first couple of pieces with a Dremel, I knew if I was going to be
serious about boulder, that a dremel would kill my wrist after a few
hours. I will use your info to start doing my research. Jack"

You're welcome, Jack! If it's your wrist that you're seking to protect, by
all means, take a long look at those "-Flex" units. They're so-named because
their shafts are far more easily flexed than those made by Foredom,
ProCraft, etc.

All the best,

Douglas Turet, GJ
Turet Design
P. O. Box 162
Arlington, MA 02476, U.S.A.
Tel. (617) 325-5328
Fax: (928) 222-0815
Email: anotherbrightidea@hotmail.com


Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:08:25 +1000
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Arch & Jan Morrison" <archnjan@serv.net.au>

Although I have cut quite a few Ovals of different types (both freehand
and to precise cutting instructions), I invariably find that I have to
fiddle with the angles and use the cheater to get the Crown Breaks to
line up with the facetted Girdle facets. I suspect that this is because
I still haven't found the right way to start the pavilion and set up the
Girdle facets in the first place. I would welcome comments from anyone
on how they go about cutting Ovals, how they set up the basic Oval shape
and finalise the length of the individual Girdle facets so that they are
correct for cutting the Crown.

Arch Morrison
Buderim, Queensland (Beautiful one day - Perfect the next), Australia


Subject: raytech Shaw for sale
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:55:01 -0400
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: "Frank lavin" <nival42@hotmail.com>

I have put my Raytech Shaw faceting machine on E-bay.  It comes with
virtually everything needed to start faceting.  The handpiece has the dial
conversion which I found to be" worth its weight in gold". I have put a very
reasonable reserve of $600. for everthing.  Anyone interested in viewing the
auction, put Raytech Shaw in the search box.  It is listed under nival1942. 
If you have any questions about it, please e-mail me off list.



Subject: Diamond Source
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 9:24:26 -0400
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com> "LapidaryArtsDigest"
From: <parrotjd@bellsouth.net>

For anyone looking for rough diamonds.  A source?
All  rough diamonds with   full documents plus the Kimberly Certificate.
We are awaiting to hear from you the soonest.

For more information:

Kuper Reuven
115 Rachi St.
Rosh Ah'Ayin
ISRAEL, 48037.
Tel: +972-3-9381108
Mobile :+972-58-638799
Yahoo Messenger: kuper_r2001
Email: kuper_r@zahav.net.il

For your information our branch contacts No:

Kuper Reuven.
 Tel: 972-3-9381108
 Mobile: 972-58-638799
 Email: kuper_r@zahav.net.il

 Mr Lionedos Kalogeros
 Tel: 357-22-347122
 Fax: 357-22-347205

 Mr Lambros Kalogeros
GIA Graduate GG Gemmologist.

 E-FAX: 1-419-7353689









PERSONALS: (General Lapidary and Faceting)






Lurking is fine, but participation is better for learning !
Post something from your experiences in gemcutting today!


Subject: Funnies
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:10:11 -0400
From: "Frank lavin" <nival42@hotmail.com>

Your morning chuckle.....  Aging is when you stop lying about your age and
start bragging about it.
The older we get, the fewer things seem worth waiting in line for.
Some people try to turn back their odometers. Not me, I want people to
know "why" I look this way. I've traveled a long way and some of the
roads weren't paved.
How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are?
When you are dissatisfied and would like to go back to youth, think of
You know you are getting old when everything either dries up or leaks.
I don't know how I got over the hill without getting to the top.
One of the many things no one tells you about aging is that it is such a
nice change from being young.
Ah, being young is beautiful, but being old is comfortable.
Old age is when former classmates are so gray and wrinkled and bald,
they don't recognize you.
If you don't learn to laugh at trouble, you won't have anything to laugh
at when you are old.
First you forget names, then you forget faces. Then you forget to pull
up your zipper. It's worse when you forget to pull it down.
Long ago when men cursed and beat the ground with sticks, it was called
witchcraft... Today, it's called golf
Two women met for the first time since graduating from high school. One
asked the other, "You were always so organized in school, Did you manage
to live a well planned life? " " Yes," said her friend. "My first
marriage was to a millionaire; my second marriage was to an actor; my
third marriage was to a preacher; and now I'm married to an undertaker."
Her friend asked, "What do those marriages have to do with a well
planned life?" "One for the money, two for the show, three to get ready,
and four to go."




Dear Lord,

With life flashing by so very fast
'tis time to view things in my past...

Like when I was a little tot
such things you sent that meant a lot...

Like sitting on my father's knee
'twas bouncing, laughing, full of glee...

Or mother's tender, warming touch
to comfort me when needing such...

Dear Lord, I thank you for providing me
with folks you graciously gave to me...

author: Doug Smith


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Tempie Francis, Attorney at Law / Legal Advisor


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