Issue No. 198 - Tuesday, September 02, 2003
Moderated by: Thurmond Moore III
Committed to carrying on the fine works of
Hale Sweeny and Jerry Dewbre
Hi all,

It was a wonderful 4 days on the ranch. Temps in
the high 60's and finally rainy. I love it ! Well that is
past so let's get back to work. Get those post in
for inclusion in the next issue of the Digest.

Great News: Hale Sweeny has contacted me offering
His Lapidary Digest Archives for the gemcutters.org site.
I will let everyone know when they are ready to go.

Send your PICS for posting to:


Index to Today's Digest

01  RE: Spammers  (oops)
02  NEW: Tucson September Show
03  RE: Precision LP Gas Torch
04  RE: Precision LP Gas Torch
05  RE: Precision LP Gas Torch
06  RE: Precision LP Gas Torch
07  NEW: Lap Lap hand Faceter on E-bay.
08  FS: 12" Vibrolap for Sale
09  NEW: A Morning with Ed Soukup


Subject: My autoresponder.
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:50:51 -0400
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com (LapidaryArtsDigest)
From: Jon Rolfe <jon@gearloose.com>

>The webmaster address will be disabled shortly because of spam.
>Know a spammer?
>Kill Them.

Ooops..the list was not supposed to get that.  Rather than write hundreds
of e-mails notifying everyone, I set up a robot on my Apache Server.
I do not (wink wink nudge nudge) advocate violence toward spammers.  This
is about the fourth e-mail address I have had to abandon.
1: If you ever buy from a spammer, you are part of the problem.
2: Spamming is theft by conversion and trespass to chattel.  Spammers are
3: If someone  refinances their house through a spammer who conceals his
identity, they deserve to lose their house, because they are an idiot.
4: No legitimate product has ever been sold by spamming.  Real businesses
have advertising budgets, pay taxes and expenses.


Sorry about that Jon, I'll ask next time. I also do not advocate
violence towards spammers.... their machines, however, are a different



Subject: Tucson September Show
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:07:54 -0700
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Galarneau's" <gggemswcr@cox.net>

  I will be a dealer at the G+LW Tucson September 4-7 Show.  This show
normally is a good indicator of what the rest of the year will be like
for business.  I will post what happened when I get back.

  Gerry Galarneau


Thanks Gerry, We will look forward to your report.



Subject: re - Precision LP Gas Torch
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:37:54 -0500
To: <efjke@msn.com>
From: "Robert Powell" <texeclectic@earthlink.net>
Cc: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>

Dear Jake.
And other list members.

I am a list member and have dealt with this flammable gas storage ,
in the following manner. I am very respectful of safety procedures
and the need to meet fire codes . This is what I have done in my home

I was trained as a goldsmith at TIJT Paris Texas. 2 year program.
I am also a Journeyman Millwright and Journeyman Maintaince Mechanic . 30 years.

I have an Oxygen refillable container. 40 cu ft. ( M )
I use a disposable 16 0z  propane cylinder.
The Smith Little Torch with tips # 3 - 7 work very well with these tanks.

It is listed as burning for 13 hrs with a # 5 tip .
I use a # 5 tip for most normal sized work and the tank seemed to last nearly 1 week .
Just pick up several tanks at Wal-Mart and store them outside in a vented , lockable
cabinet outside. A foot locker stood on end works well I am told.
Just drill holes in the top and bottom of the back . And chain it something...

What I have is very similar to the " Complete disposable propane / refillable
Oxygen little torch system # 500-009/K  for $  385.00  weight 21.2 lbs.
page 333 of the 2002 Rio Grande tool catalog.
Phone # 1 - 800 - 545 - 6566  or on line at www.riogrande.com

My set is different in the following respects.
I purchased the Oxygen tank locally and got the 40 cu. ft. tank (M) instead of the 20 (R)
cu. ft. shown. This has two advantages 1 - you are paying for a used inspected ( very legal )
tank of twice the storage capacity purchased locally  ( no shipping charges ) .
2 - when you refill the 40 cu. ft. tank , which will last twice as long,
the refill price is nearly the same.

I have used my Smith little torch for some time. it is an industry standard.
Get the propane set up torch with tips # 3 - 7 and a Smith  propane Multi
orifice melting tip for casting ( 3 oz gold ) and larger silver work.
# 500-222 at $ 27.95 ea. page 334

There is an illustration of the two oxygen tanks , 20 and 40 cu. ft. on page 343.

Do not waste your time on the disposable oxygen tanks or the regulator which
is specific to them. - A total waste of money - Not economical at all to use.

I also use the following item, Electronic Torch Striker. # 503-026 at $27.55 , page .344
This striker is economical to use , handy, and saves gas  and oxygen.

Oxygen is a non flammable gas and is permitted as long as it is secured from falling over.
Medical Oxygen is permitted everywhere under the same permit.

If you wish to avoid problems at all , purchase the package on page 333 and simply
sit the entire soldering set up outside when you are not using it.
Put it inside a  secured , lockable, vented cabinet OUTSIDE .

I have done business with Rio Grande for years . They are a first class out fit.
Their tool selection is second to none.

The site of the Ganoksin or Orchid newsgroup .  For Jewelry, The Best -

Let me thank all the list members for making this the best Faceting and Lapidary
News group which I know of. And for sharing so freely of their expertise.

Please email me at texeclectic@earthlink.net if I can be of any more

Respectfully Yours, Robb


Subject: Re: Issue No. 197 - Thursday, August 28, 2003
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:21:22 -0700
To: LapidaryArtsDigest <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: TA Masters <tam2819@cox.net>

About area restrictions on propane, I attended a class a few months ago
where several were using the squat camper stove propane bottle with a
BernzOmatic mini torch directly attached. I discussed it with them and
one let me use his to try it out. I was making a silver chain that
needed soldered links.

It worked out just fine. I questioned the economy of the small tanks and
was told of a connector to refill the small tank from the barbecue size
I keep outside my home. These are available from Harbor Freight.

I plan on traveling to Australia in a couple of months, and will look
into the one you mention. What's another torch between friends.

Smiths Little Torch has a oxy/propane set up similar to the acet/oxy.
The tip sizes are different, regulators proper.


Subject: Torch problem answer
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:43:20 -0500
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Larry" <ldavis32@cox.net>

Here is a copy of the note I sent out today about some torch problems.


Just finished the digest post for today and found your problem to be of

I must have gotten my torch just in time.  I have a Krohn Fluxed Flame torch
that will (with the right tip) put out from a flame small enough that you
can just see it to one over a quarter inch in dia. which will do some
serious silver soldering.  Flame size is controlled by the tip orifice size.
Tips are either cut off square and polished and made from hypodermic needles
or you can buy tips that are all stainless steel.

There is only one hose which feeds the gas mixture through a chamber with a
solution of Boric Acid and Alcohol or one of two other combinations.  This
causes the gas to pick up a small amount of the mixture and you don't need
to flux your gold or silver (whatever) when soldering.

Now.... the gas is water which gets broken down into Hydrogen and Oxygen and
never gets over 2 psi.  The mixture is exactly what it should be to
re-combine back into H2O.  Clean burning.  There is also a catalyst chemical
which I can mix that helps the break down of the water.

This is the only torch that is allowed in some Mall stores and the whole
thing is only about 10 inches square and a little less than that deep.  It
is very heavy due to the transformer and diodes that furnish the power to
the chamber to break the water down.

If you can find one it is going to be costly.  This one started out at over
$1000 and sat on the dealers shelf for many years.  One day I asked him how
much he would take for it and he shot back $500..  Well I waited another
year or two.  Walked back in and asked him how much for the machine.  He
said give me $300 and it is yours.  I counted out three $100 bills and
walked out with my torch.

With this torch you only have water in the chamber when it is off and only a
very little gas when working.

Oxy-Hydrogen will give you the hottest flame you can get.

Because the Oxygen and Hydrogen are broken down from water they is as stated
above only one hose.  It has only one knob (ON or OFF) and you can't control
the flame size with it.  If you ever find one of these and use it ... Don't
try to change the flame size.  You will only get a POP and the flame is out.
It is possible that the flame would even try to follow up into the needle
and your tip would start turning orange.  All in all it is a very save torch
to use.

Look for one and see if you think it is worth the time.

You may have to look hard as the company has stopped making them years back.
If you do find one or someone would sell one to you the company gives
EXCELLENT SERVICE.  I have even talked to the service department head on the
phone and if he isn't available he will call back to me.  Great company to
deal with if you need them.

Larry Davis
Wichita, KS


Subject: Re: Precision LP Gas Torch
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:56:27 -0600
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "jake" <efjke@msn.com>

I do have a piece of information someone out there may be interested in
regarding what I posted bout the Precision LP Gas Torch.  I thanked the
Planerts for the information and said I wondered about that. To Wit:

Dear Eric,
Thanks for your e-mails. We are worldwide agents and contact persons for any
clients interested in the torches as the German manufacturer does not speak
English. We can arrange direct supply through the manufacturer for American
For ease of transactions you are right, we will have to look into paypal and
will list the price in American Dollars as soon as possible.

Dvrte Planert

E. Jakeman


Subject: NEW: Hand Faceting Kit
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 00:40:09 -0500
To: LapidaryArtsDigest <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: gembin <gembin@spiff.net>

Hi All,

There's an ebay item
that is a hand operated (Brand New) LAP LAP Faceting Machine that comes
with it's own carrying case, faceting head with hard stop, dops, 2
indexes, diamond grit, etc. It is called a lap lap faceting machine
because you can even hold it on your lap while lapping stones. Says you
can facet gemstones easily while watching TV, flying on a airliner or
listening to the radio. I guess even when fishing, watching a sports
event or on a picnic, just like when grandma used to sit knitting by the
fireplace! Says it's great for beginners as well as other uses. Has a
link to an article by Bob Jones, senior editor of Rock & Gem magazine
that describes it in detail with pictures. I have no association with
the product. Just thought you might be curious about it as I was.
Auction ends Sept. 7th, 03 at 19:45 PDT. What do all of you think about it?

Doug "Rhodolite" Smith
Alton, Illinois, USA ( Suggestion: Lapping a stone while sitting
listening intently to your spouse outlining your "Honey Do" jobs?)


Hi Doug, The Lap Lap is also great for those visits to relatives
whose favorite pastime is sitting around being non-productive. It
will save your sanity in such situations as well as sparking interest
from "lookers on". I carry mine a lot and use it anytime the opportunity



Subject: 12" Vibrolap for Sale
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 08:32:58 -0700
To: "LapidaryArtsDigest" <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "b-daw" <b-daw@pacbell.net>

Greetings Gang,
I hope everybody had a great labor day!  Not working too hard on the
ranch, Thurmond?  Myself, I am going to the San Diego Symphony tonight
to see Andrew Lloyd Weber!
I just wanted to let everybody know that a good friend of mine has a 12"
Vibro-Lap for sale:  $175.00 plus shipping.  Mfg. by Beacon Engineering
Co., Ser# B73-680, Mod# 1-12" Super Lap.
Marsh lives in Tennessee and you may reach him directly: 
feel free to tell him, Patty sent you!  He has images he can provide. 
It looks like a very sweet and clean machine!
Hope you all had a nice holiday!



Subject: A Morning with Ed Soukup
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 20:29:51 -0700
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: TA Masters <tam2819@cox.net>

What a wonderful way to start a day. I was about 10 minutes early when I
arrived and went right to the books. I was able to buy a few, every one
of them with Ed's hand written signature inside. Some with dedication to
him. absolute treasures.

I was the second to arrive and on a check out table was a stack of books
three times the size of mine, these were selected by the first arrivee.
Following me was a dealer in Rare Books. sure glad I got there ahead of
him, he was picking up the boxes that were left.

After I had scoped out the books I went to chat with Ed. What a very
nice man. He has all his marbles, reads newsprint and just a bit reduced
hearing. Looks great and is spirited and interested.

I asked about his health and he laughingly told me "Dr. told me a year
and a half ago that I had just a few months, and I'm still here."
Thankfully it looks as if he will be a few more. He very much misses his
wife of many years, the very same thing Glen Vargas told me when we last

I have long commented on how long lived and happy the marital lives of
Rockhounds are, guess I'll have to add faceters to that equation.

There were a lot of slabs, rocks and cutting material there. I'm sure as
the day passes there will be little left. I know the books are gone.

It was quite an honor for me, and I shared with Ed how well he is still
spoken about in this community. He smiled a wide grin.

When I first posted this sale announcement, GIA responded. They did
speak with Cathy Davis who had organized this sale, and in the works
hopefully is a personal appearance at GIA of Mr. Ed Soukup. You can bet
I will be there.









PERSONALS: (General Lapidary and Faceting)






Lurking is fine, but participation is better for learning !
Post something from your experiences in gemcutting today!


Intelligence or lack of it.

Two men were digging a ditch on a very hot day.
One said to the other, "Why are we down in this
hole digging a ditch when our boss is standing up
there in the shade of a tree?" "I don't know,"
responded the other. "I'll ask him."

So he climbed out of the hole and went to his boss.
"Why are we digging in the hot sun and you're standing
in the shade?" "Intelligence," the boss said. "What do
you mean, intelligence'?"

The boss said, "Well, I'll show you. I'll put my hand on
this tree and I want you to hit it with your fist as hard as
you can." The ditch digger took a mighty swing and tried
to hit the boss' hand. The boss removed his hand and
the ditch digger hit the tree. The boss said, "That's intelligence!"

The ditch digger went back to his hole. His friend asked,
"What did he say?" "He said we are down here because
of intelligence." "What's intelligence?" said the friend.
The ditch digger put his hand on his face and said, "Take
your shovel and hit my hand."



Be slow in choosing a friend, but slower in changing him.

---Scottish Proverb---


is produced by Thurmond Moore III

Tempie Francis, Attorney at Law / Legal Advisor


is never sent unsolicited.  You are receiving it
because you subscribed to it at our digest subscription page at:


To unsubscribe, just use the link below and follow the
instructions there:


List Posting Guidelines and rules can be found at:
Published Monday thru Friday, except holidays
from Spur,Texas
Share your love of lapidary with everyone.