Issue No. 233 - Thursday, October 23, 2003
Moderated by: Thurmond Moore III
Committed to carrying on the fine works of
Hale Sweeny and Jerry Dewbre

Hi all.

Thanks to everyone who posted today. Great list.


Index to Today's Digest

01  RE: Dop Popping
02  RE: Dop Popping
03  RE: Dop Popping
04  RE: Turquoise
05  RE: Dop Popping
06  RE: Precision LP Gas Torch
07  RE: Dop Popping
08  NEW: Beryl Twins


Subject: Super Glue release
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:09:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: LapidaryArtsDigest <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: Dave Thompson <djt@irastro.caltech.edu>

> Concerning using super glue for dopping: My problem is getting
> the stuff to release.

Soak it in a jar of acetone, no need for methylene
chloride.  Most stones come off after a few hours, and I've never
had one last overnight.  The advantage is that this is a totally
cold process, so no thermal shock to the stones.  The disadvantage
is that you need to use "open transfers," where the stone is
completely removed from the dops when transferring.  But it is
actually quite simple to realign the stone before cutting the

Dave (Pasadena, CA)


Subject: Breaking the stone-dop stick bond
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:46:18 -0400
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Hale Sweeny"

When I taught cabbing, I always brought a pan of ice to the class for
releasing stones from dops.  Worked well, but going to the kitchen
before each class was a pain.  The other night, I saw an ad on TV for a
way to get rid of warts.  It was a "spray" can with a tube and it
produced a very cold (cryogenic) material, to be applied directly to the
wart, exactly as a Dermatologist does it.  Neat!!  My first reaction was
that it was just the thing to have in the shop to allow the release of
stones from dops.

Now, I have not tried it, but I see no reason why it won't work.  And no
more traipsing to the kitchen for ice!!

Just an idea.  Any comments?

Hale Sweeny
Durham, NC


Hi Hale, Glad you are posting. I have some spray used to instantly cool "chips" to isolate
thermal problems in electronic devices. I will give it a try and post the results.



Subject: superglue
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:56:33 GMT
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: bshmt1@juno.com

Hi  I want to respode to post by Todd .To make superglue set up, dust it with baking
soda also With epoxy it sometimes feels sticky , just dust it with baking soda.
Bud  In the center of So,CA


Subject: turquoise
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:07:51 -0600
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "jake" <efjke@msn.com>

A brief word about turquoise, other than saying I was glad there has been
some discussion.  I noticed that mention was made of the Sleeping Beauty
mine.  I have a license and a tax number.  (The reason I do is that it
allows me to get things.)  If you do fax them a copy and they will send you
a wholesale list.  You will not believe the price difference. I saw the
letter posted offering some, at this time by the time I can take advantage
of that it most likely will not be there.  Hence a reluctance to name a few
sources I know.

I thought the comment about a new treatment is interesting.  I am a skeptic
as most "stabilized can be spotted instantly as there is a difference in
appearance, it dose not have the same appearance.  Natural turquoise's shine
comes from the stone, the others is from the plastic, giving it a distinct
look.  Some claim you can not tell, but having worked with this stone you
can.  If this is true about the "Sterling Enhanced" turquoise, my objections
(the major ones) would have to be reconsidered and weighed.  I do not carry
that magazine, if you could tell us which company this is, I for one would
appreciate it and give it a look.


Subject: Re: Dop Popping
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:31:06 -0700
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: "Charles Edmonds" <chuck_e@earthlink.net>

Hi all,

This is the dopping process I've been using lately with good success.  It
works for me.

First I grind a temporary table on the stone using  600 grit .  I then
clean both the dop and the stone with alcohol and glue them together with
CA and a spritz of accelerator.  The accelerator seems to compensate for
aging CA.  Without it I've had problems with the CA bond failing.  After
about an hour the bond is strong enough to grind the pavilion.

After the pavilion has been finished, I clean everything with alcohol and
glue the pavilion to the transfer dop with 5 minute epoxy.  I usually let
the epoxy cure for a couple of hours before disturbing it.  Now comes the
fun part.  I wrap the stone in a paper towel, grab the wrapped stone gently
with a pair of pliers, grab the dop attached to the crown with another pair
of pliers, and give it a gentle twist.  Usually the CA will give way and
release the dop.  If that doesn't work and it often doesn't if the dop is
larger than about 6mm, I wet the paper towel and heat the dop attached to
the crown with my alcohol lamp while applying a twisting pressure to the
dop.  After 10 or 15 seconds it always comes loose.  The wet paper towel
keeps the stone cool.

When the crown is finished I drop the stone and the attached dop into
Attack and let it soak overnight.  9 times out of 10 it is loose by
morning.  If it isn't I do the wet paper towel and alcohol lamp routine
again and the dop releases within a few seconds.

I've been using the epoxy from Bob Smith Industries with good success.  It
was recommended by several folks on the list.  I found it a local hobby
story labeled with the store's name.  I originally used the Devcon 5 minute
epoxy but had problems with it not hardening properly.  The CA is Loctite
Glass Glue.

Chuck Edmonds


Subject: Precision LP Gas Torch
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:09:41 -0700
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Bob Boston" <rvb@ihot.com>

I'm wondering if anyone has any experiece using the  Precision LP Gas
Torch, yet. I'm about to try some lost wax casting and need to purchase
an inexpensive torch capable of melting an ounce or two of silver at a
time. it sounds as if the  Precision Torch might work. I noticed that
some members were going to try it out and I was hoping that they might
share their opinion of it's capabilities. Thanks, Bob Boston


Subject: Dopping Dropping Duldrums
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:59:32 -0400
To: "LapidaryArtsDigest" <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Peter In Maine" <kulaczp@pivot.net>

Must be me..... but I still enjoy the wax .......I get it on, get it done
and get it off.......Never waiting overnight to peak at my finished

Seems that too many folks look for the easy way out and find it ain't so
easy anyway.....

Granted my prizes are all bigger than  4mm ......but the wax has not let me
down yet.........I use the black struff  and it holds just fine...

Peter.........maine has snow.............


Subject: beryl twins!
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 18:25:48 -0700
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "b-daw" <b-daw@pacbell.net>

Greetings Thurmond and All!
Thank you for all the great inquiries on the orange garnets i cut for my
gentleman friend's daughter/son-in-law's wedding bands.  I am sorry I
can not offer you all any of the garnets because the claim is private. 
I am just grateful to be tagging along right now.  If any thing becomes
available for everyone, I will post notice.
Today I am posting an image I took with my digital microscope.  I
received some aquamarine from the middle east and put it under the scope
to check the inclusions.  Inclusions are one way to verify your mineral
is what they say it is.  This particular crystal looked spectacularly
clean to the naked eye, but after some searching around up and down the
c-axis, it proved to be loaded with these small, hexagonally zoned cross
sections of beryl crystals!  what an excitement to find these, at least
for me!  This particular image was interesting because it was a twinned
cross section.


Thank you Thurmond and I hope you all have enjoyed my post today!


From: JFS41@aol.com
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 10:14 PM
Subject: Message from Web Site

  My Uncle was very interested in lapidary. He passed away several years
ago at the age of 92 and we inherited his equipment. One item he made
himself, it is a rock saw capable of slabbing up to 14" and has several
extra blades. It has an electric winch to lift the hinged windowed
cover. It is quite heavy.  Also there are 3 different rock saws
(commercially manufactured) a polishing table and a tumbler. He made a
lot of tables with rock slab tops.

  We need to sell all the items as soon as possible or store them, as we
are removing the Buildings that they are in. The large saw will need to
be dismantled, so if someone is interested they would probably like OT
see it first.

  If you know of anyone that would be interested or know how to contact
same please let me know. You can call John Stewart @ (209) 538-1668 the
equipment is in Modesto, CA.









PERSONALS: (General Lapidary and Faceting)






Lurking is fine, but participation is better for learning !
Post something from your experiences in gemcutting today!

Subject: Teenage Daughter's Owner's Manual
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:42:02 -0500
From: Downey <alckytxn@swbell.net>

Teenage Daughter's Owner's Manual

Congratulations! You are now the proud new owner of a teenaged daughter.
Please read this manual carefully, as it describes the maintenance of
your new daughter, and answers important questions about your warranty
(which does NOT include the right to return the product to the factory for a
full refund.)

To determine whether you were supposed to receive a teenaged girl,
please examine your new daughter carefully. Does she.....
(a) look very similar to your original daughter, only with more makeup
and less clothing?
(b) refuse to acknowledge your existence on the planet Earth (except
when requesting money)?
(c) Sleep in a burrow of dirty laundry? If any of these are true, you
have received the correct item. Nice try, though.

When you first receive your teenaged daughter, you will initially
experience a high level of discomfort. Gradually, this discomfort will
subside, and you will merely feel traumatized. This is the "Break-In
Period," during which you are becoming accustomed to certain behaviors
that will cause you concern, anxiety, and stress. Once you have adapted
to these
behaviors, your teenager will start acting even worse.

To activate your teenaged daughter, simply place her in the vicinity of
a telephone or Instant Messenger. No further programming is required.

Several hours after activation, you may desire to shut down your
teenaged daughter. There is no way to do this.

Having a teenaged daughter means learning the difference between the
words "clean" and "neat." Teenaged daughters are very clean, because
they take frequent showers that last more than an hour. They will scrub
themselves with expensive, fragrant soaps which you must purchase for
them because like I'm sure I'm going to use like the same kind of soap
my mom and
dad use. When they have completely drained the hot-water tank, they will
step out and wrap themselves in every towel in the bathroom, which they
will subsequently strew throughout the house. If you ask them to pick up
the towels, you are confusing "clean" with "neat." Teenagers are very
busy and
do not have time to be neat. They expect others to pick up after them.
These others are called "parents."

Your teenaged daughter requires regular meals, which must be purchased
for her at restaurants because she detests everything you eat because it
is like so disgusting. She does not want you to accompany her to these
restaurants, because some people might see you and like I'm sure I want
my friends to see me eating dinner with my parents. Either order
take-out food or just give her the money, preferably both. If you order
pizza, never
answer the doorbell because the delivery boy might see you and ohmigod
he is so hot. Yes, your daughter's idea of an attractive man is the
pizza boy.

Retailers make millions of dollars a year selling stylish and frankly
sensible clothing which will look adorable on your daughter. If you
enjoy shopping, you will love the vast selections which are available to
you. Unfortunately, your teenaged daughter wants to dress like a lap
dancer. You may be able to coerce her into putting on a cute outfit
before leaving the house, but by the time she walks in the schoolhouse
door, she will be wearing something entirely different.

Teenaged daughters require one of two levels of maintenance: "High," and
"Ultra High." Your daughter is "Ultra High." This means that whatever
you do won't be enough and whatever you try won't work.

This product is not without defect because she has your genes, for
heaven's sake. If you think this is not fair, talk to your parents, who
think it is hilarious. Your teenaged daughter will remain a teenager for
as long as it takes for her to become a woman, which in her opinion has
already happened and as far as you are concerned never really will. If
you are dissatisfied with your teenaged daughter, well, what did you
expect? In any
event, your warranty does not give you your little girl back under any
circumstances, except that deep down she's actually still there - you
just have to look for her.



A lie gets halfway around the world before the
truth has a chance to get its pants on.

---Sir Winston Churchill---


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Tempie Francis, Attorney at Law / Legal Advisor


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