Issue No. 231 - Tuesday, October 21, 2003
Moderated by: Thurmond Moore III
Committed to carrying on the fine works of
Hale Sweeny and Jerry Dewbre
Index to Today's Digest

01  NEW: Big saw
02  NEW: spessartine garnets from the CA desert!
03  RE: Turquoise
04  NEW: Dop Popping
05  RE: Natural Turquoise


Subject: Big saw
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:38:16 -0400
To: "LapidaryArtsDigest" <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "RICHARD P ROSENTHAL" <kenaii@earthlink.net>

Hi, I was wondering if I could for purely self serving motives pick the
brain of the collective on constructing a " big saw".  I was dealing
with someone trying to make countertops from nephrite recently. He was
interested in a 3 ton block for a trial run to compare his trial run on
a similar block of Brithish Coumbian Nephrite. The sale was put on hold
because the wire saw set up his cutters was using was cutting to slow
ans it looked like the end product was going to require to much planing
and finishing to be economical. He assured me that the cutters were old
hands who had cut many thousands of feet of granite tops using this set
up.  My belief is that wire setups are inherently inacurate as compared
to a blade. Years ago on a masonry job I hired a contractor who had
hydrulic pump that ran off a volkswagon engine this pushed a hydraulic
motor mounted on a 60 inch diamond blade.  I used him to cut an opening
in a 26 inch rock wall.  I though a setup like this would make a great
rock saw with the blade and motor traveling down a overhead I beam, the
way a sliding barn door travels  on a overhead rail. I think this setup
would be inherently more accurate then a wire setup and much faster. I`m
not a enginer but hydraulics seem to deliver almost unlimited power and
torque and except for the blade the other parts like pump and motor are
inexspensive .  Am I on the wrong foot here Or is my customer dooming
his efforts from the start with an aniquated setup that will require
endless uneconomical  finishing. I have seen big wire saws in Alaska but
they seemed huge and cumbersome slow moving and mostly I thought they
were just used for seperating big blocks into smaller ones not for
precision cutting. Of course there is also the distinct  possibility
that my foot is in my mouth after all the Chinese cut jade for hundreds
of years using wire. Anybody out there who knows about this stuff and
can shed some light on the subject I would love to hear from you. I have
a hydrulic pump on an aging dump truck it pushes the cylinders with
cutoff to a hydraulic motor that turns the winch.  The truck is no
longer road worthy and  I was thiniking I could use the parts to make a
"big Saw". I know I would need to change the gearing on the motor since
the winch turns slow but other then this I see no serious obstacles. Any
thoughts? Also anyone have a current address for Raytech, I would like
to try thier mist killer.

Best Wishes kenaii@eathlink.net


Subject: spessartine garnets from the CA desert!
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:53:56 -0700
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "b-daw" <b-daw@pacbell.net>

greetings thurmond and all!
i wanted to relay a nice little incident that happened to me about six
weeks ago.  the phone rang down at school were i am learning to cut.  my
very first phone call and i was shocked it was for me.  seems somebody
had referred this gentleman to me because he was looking for someone to
cut some garnets for him.  he said he had a claim and he needed some cut
stones for his daughter and son-in-law's wedding rings!  i was honored
to take the job, produce the stones and attach an image for everybody to
see!  lucky for me, i was paid $20 and all the garnet i can dig up for
myself to cut!  needless to say, i have been very busy cutting
spessartines.  they are small, but very beautiful.



Subject: Re: Issue No. 230 - Monday, October 20, 2003
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:10:13 -0400
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com> "LapidaryArtsDigest"
From: <parrotjd@bellsouth.net>

  For folks looking for turquoise.  Try both Gram Faceting.com and Color-Wright.com


Subject: "Dop Popping"
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:37:30 -0600
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Todd" <td_gunz@yahoo.com>

Hi all,
            Does anyone else have this problem?  I just recently got
some Superglue from Jeff Graham's site.  It's called; "Hot Stuff Super
T".  Along with that I use a Mild Accelerator to make the glue go off.
It's a fairly thick slow glue and has plenty of working time without the
accelerator, too long in fact for me.
            I started using the CA because I was working on some heat
sensitive material which literally exploded on the dop when the Blazer
Torch touched it.  It shot hot pieces of stone and scalding hot dop wax
all over!  I promptly started looking for alternate sources of dopping.
I went with the CA over epoxy because of the curing time and the need to
use Attack or another solvent to remove epoxy from finished stones/dops.

            With this Super T Glue, I'm having a problem with the stones
"dop popping" right at critical times.  I was just finishing a very nice
4mm SRB Montana Sapphire.  I'd cut/polished the pavilion without
incident dopped with superglue, transferred the stone to cut the crown.
As I went to cut the lap hit some dried glue.  It had run down onto the
crown from the pavilion joint in the cone dop.  I'm a little heavy
handed with the glue, I admit.  If you don't hit it with the accelerator
right away the glue, even though it's fairly thick, has a tendency to
            As soon as the lap hit that glue spot it caught and popped
the stone off.  It hit the lap, made the 'ping' sound stones make when
they break the sound barrier in the process of achieving low earth
orbit.  It flang away somewhere and is either in the hobby room's stone
eating carpet or stuck to one of my Somali cats who were watching.  In
fact, one leaped off the ledge where they sit when I facet as if stung
by a bee, although upon close examination he didn't appear to be hiding
the stone in question! 
            This isn't the first time I've had that happen; (pop off the
dop, not hit the cat w/a stone!) and it's usually on the crown.  I guess
gluing the flat dop to the false or temp table as its flat doesn't let
the glue get near the laps. 
            Several times I've been able to get the stone re-glued back
onto the dop really close to what it was.  It usually necessitates quite
a bit of cheating on the crown though.  It's never quite right, and
sometimes I can't get it realigned at all.
            I just got some information from Mike Williams of Quality
Gem Rough about a process which may help.  It's using Superglue for the
pavilion and then dop wax for the crown.  It involves 'painting' the
stone and the cone dop w/shellac.  You let it dry, then melt some wax
into the cone dop, proceed to a cold joint on the stone, and finally
with the torch make it a good solid joint.  It sounds labor intensive,
but if it's the only alternative I'll do it rather than suffer the dop
            Any advice or suggestions are appreciated.  I've got quite a
few small stones to cut and am just not that adept at using the dop
wax/blazer torch combo on small heat sensitive material.  I don't seem
to have any better luck with the alcohol lamp either.
            As always, thanx for everything,


Subject: Natural Turquoise
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:02:12 EDT
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: SSJewelry9@aol.com

  Hi All,
       If you want GOOD natural turquoise try the BAD BOYS in Cripple Creek
Colorado. They have turquoise hard enough to scratch a windshield. They were
written up in "Rocks N Gems."
       I have no affiliation just some of their turquoise! ;-)
Grand Junction, CO.


From: JFS41@aol.com=20
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 10:14 PM
Subject: Message from Web Site

  My Uncle was very interested in lapidary. He passed away several years
ago at the age of 92 and we inherited his equipment. One item he made
himself, it is a rock saw capable of slabbing up to 14" and has several
extra blades. It has an electric winch to lift the hinged windowed
cover. It is quite heavy.  Also there are 3 different rock saws
(commercially manufactured) a polishing table and a tumbler. He made a
lot of tables with rock slab tops.

  We need to sell all the items as soon as possible or store them, as we
are removing the Buildings that they are in. The large saw will need to
be dismantled, so if someone is interested they would probably like OT
see it first.

  If you know of anyone that would be interested or know how to contact
same please let me know. You can call John Stewart @ (209) 538-1668 the
equipment is in Modesto, CA.









PERSONALS: (General Lapidary and Faceting)






Lurking is fine, but participation is better for learning !
Post something from your experiences in gemcutting today!

A pair of chickens walk up to the circulation desk at a public
library and say, 'Buk Buk BUK.' The librarian decides that the
chickens desire three books, and gives it to them...and the
chickens leave shortly thereafter.

Around midday, the two chickens return to the circulation
desk quite vexed and say,' Buk Buk BuKKOOK!' The librarian
decides that the chickens desire another three books and
gives it to them. The chickens leave as before.

The two chickens return to the library in the early afternoon,
approach the librarian, looking very annoyed and say, 'Buk
Buk Buk Buk Bukkooook!' The librarian is now a little suspicious
of these chickens. She gives them what they request, and
decides to follow them.

She followed them out of the library, out of the town, and to a
park. At this point, she hid behind a tree, not wanting to be seen.
She saw the two chickens throwing the books at a frog in a pond,
to which the frog was saying, "Rrredit Rrredit Rrredit..."



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