Issue No. 243 - Monday, November 10, 2003
Moderated by: Thurmond Moore III
Committed to carrying on the fine works of
Hale Sweeny and Jerry Dewbre
Hi All,   There was no digest Friday due to lack of post.
Today we have an excerp from a Book written by one of
our members. Please be sure to check it out.

Index to Today's Digest

01  RE: saw tooth facets
02  NEW: safe from the ravaging ramona fire!
03  NEW: Horizontal Sander questions.
04  RE: excerpt from the 2nd edition of "The Gem Merchant"


Subject: Re: Wavy Girdle
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:50:50 -0800
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com (LapidaryArtsDigest)
From: Don Rogers <Don@Campbell-gemstones.com>

At 07:28 PM 11/6/03 -0600, you wrote:
>Is it normal for a girdle
>which is not faceted to be "wavy" or get thicker and thinner as it
>passes the facet meet points?

I am guessing from your description that you cut a round stone.  What you
are seeing is the geometry of a round girdle meeting a flat facet.  The
only way to get an even girdle is to have the upper and lower facets match
exactly  and to facet the girdle that matches them.

>As far as faceting the girdle is there any advantage to it?
>Does it add any extra value to a stones value?

It depends.  I just had an Email exchange with another facetor who said
that a "master goldsmith" that he works with wants the stones to have a
round, unfaceted girdle.  The goldsmith claims he will grind the round if
he gets a stone with a faceted girdle, because they are easier to set and
are harder to damage.   Having set stones professionally for years, my view
is that the goldsmith doesn't know how to properly set a stone.

A faceted girdle gives a finished look to the stone.  It improves the
optics of the stone.  A diamond cutter I know said the a polished girdle
brightens the diamonds, while a bearded ( unpolished) girdle darkens
them.  It this is so for diamonds, it is so for colored stones as well.   I
know as a jeweler as well as a facetor, that a clean, even, polished girdle
of the proper proportion to the size of the stone is easy to set, and looks
al lot better than a rough ground one.  It doesn't attract dirt like an
unpolished girdle, so that alone will improve the looks over time.



Subject: safe from the ravaging ramona fire!
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:25:07 -0800
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "b-daw" <b-daw@pacbell.net>

hello thurmond and everybody!
i just wanted to let everybody know that we are still alive and doing
well.  sunday morning we were awoken by my dog at 4am and my bedroom
window was lit by an ugly orange glow.  the fire was blazing behind the
houses across the street!  we put some clothes on, ran outside and
looked down the culdesac to see if those houses were burning.  about
30-45 mins later the fire department arrived and started working on the
fire.  there was no warning to us other than my dog and the faint smell
of smoke the night before.  it was a horrific and ugly scene to say the
least.  we live in the san diego country estates and are situated in a
small valley surrounded by 3-4 beautiful mountain ridges.  every ridge
surrounding us is now charred an ugly dead black.  we lost power for a
couple of days and the phone lines and cable were just restored the day
before yesterday.  while the cable and phones were down i occupied
myself by cutting orange garnets!  it was a good way to keep my mind
from wandering to the war torn stinky outdoors.
today and everyday we survey our area, we are just thankful to be alive
and still have a home.
i want to thank everybody for calling and checking in on me.....thank
you everybody!
i will be returning soon with another post of nice new roughs i received
before the fire decided to ravage through.  if you cant wait for the
post, feel free to contact me!  i am always happy to chat with you!
take care everybody,
Patty Miklik

Web:    www.gemstonesource.com


Subject: New
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 22:53:39 EST
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: Cmsgt2@aol.com
Cc: Cmsgt2@aol.com

I am the proud owner of a horizontal sander bought through ebay. It is quiet
and does a great job HOWEVER: my home is a park model trailer for the winter
and a 5th wheel in the summer. Every thing I own has to be capable of three or
more jobs or I cannot afford to store it. My question? How do I remove the
foam backed sanding disc? The actual disc is attached with glue but I want to
install a wheel or-? Anyone ever see one like this or have any knowledge of it
Here are the links to the pictures:





Subject: Re: Issue No. 242 - Thursday, November 6, 2003
Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 15:35:11 -0300
To: LapidaryArtsDigest <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: David Stanley <davids@mail.cdlto.com.br>

Dear fellow readers,
       Below find an excerpt from the 2nd edition of "The Gem
Merchant-How to be one-How to deal with one." I hope that it is
informative and perhaps entertaining. If you want more information about
the book, or wish to order the easiest way would be to go to
www.gembuying.com an click on the link for more information.
    Happy readings-DSE

For the last 5,000 years merchants have used their knowledge of gems and of
negotiating to buy and sell gems. More often these traders took advantage of
people's ignorance to make their profits rather than by the improvement,
use, or distribution of the product (creating no real value, just its illusion).
What are these customs and techniques, how do we recognize them, and how
do we deal with them?
The educated gentleman in the all-white suit (other colors might contaminate
the colors of the gems) leads you into an all-white air-conditioned room
with northern daylight coming through the windows. His father and many ancestors
worked in front of their tents in the bazaar. Some of his cousins still
do. It's between eleven o'clock in the morning and two in the afternoon--the best
sunlight--and it's blazing hot in "the pink city," Jaipur.
After finding out your species, size and shape requirements, he asks, "And
what price range would you like to work in?" His smile is infectious and he
speaks every language you do and better than you, including your own. Your
antenna goes up. Why does he ask price range rather than quality? To
save time and to qualify your needs better? Perhaps. However, this would be more
appropriate in a retail environment, especially if the prices were marked.
What he is probably doing is trying to get you to evaluate his material
for free. How does this work? You say, "I'd like to see eighty dollar a carat
material." The seller begins by showing what is generally accepted in the region as
ten-dollar material. If you accept it, then you've established a price and given a
guide to other pricing. The seller glories in his knowledge, your ignorance and,
most of all, in his sharp ability to get it over on the next guy. However, if you
balk, he then increases his quality at a scale in accordance with your apparent gem
knowledge which he estimates by your conversation, familiarity with customs, tools
of the trade and body language.
Let us detail this incident more. There are several tweezers and sorting
trays by the pure white paper pad on the table. He looks to see if you pick up
the sharp pointed tweezers to work with the melee (small round stones) and the
snub-nose tweezers for the larger stones. He observes what skills you have in
handling stones. He notices what you look for in stones. Do you look for simply
beauty (subjective personal taste) or are you attempting a comparison of
integral qualities such as hues, tones and clarity or perhaps even more subtle
differences like crystallization, dichroism and such.
At first, if he's good, the salesman is asking you questions, which he
should,about your needs. He's basing his prices on what your reactions are.
The salesman is watching your expressions on your face and looking at the
muscle movements around your eyes. He's looking for any changes in skin
color or posture. Your breathing might change. When you speak he is not just
listening to what you say. In fact, he may not believe anything you say. He is
listening to your tone, pace, pitch, rhythm, etc. to notice any change and he's
basing his price on this.
He shows you small, light blue envelopes which contain the stones
(except the red stones which are in yellow envelopes). In India they believe red
stones appear more attractive on a yellow background. When you ask the price, he
waits until you see the goods so he can read your expression while he makes believe he's
deciphering the price code on the envelope--something he can do in his sleep.
So how does one deal with nine generations of sharp practices? In most
"source" countries, few dealers put the price right on the envelope or
box. First, be well versed in the prices in your own selling area. We've covered this
in a different chapter. Second, try to get some idea from others who have more
experience. This is a well-guarded secret and should be difficult to
obtain, but it is well worth the time it takes to do so. Third, in your budget
calculate what profit margin you need to make. Take your projected profit and
discount from the pricein your home region. Be well prepared as to the maximum prices
you need to pay.
Now that you have an idea of what maximum price you need to pay, you have
a basis for negotiations. In his book, "You Can Negotiate Anything," Herb Cohen
highlights a key to the negotiating process. One must define limits. If
you feel that you must have something at any price, that's what you will pay. The
other side will make you pay it. In that case what you have is not a negotiation but
information about what you are going to pay. Don't fall in love with the
merchandise unless you intend to use it personally or as a gift.
Remember! We are business people, not collectors. We need a certain profit margin
which is based on our fixed expense and projected volume of business.
I cringe when I recall the times I've heard statements like, "It is so
beautiful! It will be part of my credentials as a truly fine gem merchant." Such
statements are simply rationalizations. If truly fine, rare gems are to be part of
your credentials,they should be a type which, in some way or to some degree, you
intend to resupply. Your customers want to have some idea what you will have in the
future. Therefore, if you are to continue to sell similar items and not
be a museum or put them in your private collection, then you cannot pay more than the
maximum price you have predetermined.
The maximum price you fix in your head, however, is not your goal. Your goal
is to get the lowest price you can and still have a continuing
relationship. If, as occurs in many instances and particularly in third world,
producing countries, the mentality of the seller is Machiavellian--wanting to exploit
you, wherever he may find you, as often as you may be foolish enough to return, in
every way he can.
Then your only alternative is to be merciless in your negotiation. If you are
dealing with someone whom you feel is capable of maintaining a continuing
relationship, and you desire to do so, then you must try to leave the seller a profit
which will stimulate him to work with you in the future.
Dinivaldo stares at you intensely across the desk. He has short black curly hair,
a ruddy complexion, very big eyes which seem even bigger when staring intensely
at you. He passes you another parcel in an envelope and waits and watches you
very closely. This time you decided to try something different. "How much is this
one?", you ask without opening the paper. Somewhat surprised, he
responds. "But you haven't even seen the goods," he replies. "Why do I have to see the
goods for you to give me a price?" "You don't know whether or not you're
interested" is his reply. You counter with "If I'm interested, does that change the
price of the stones?" "Look at the stones," he still insists. "Look fellow, are the
prices writtenon the packets or on my forehead?" you say as you start to give the
parcel back unopened. He shoots out a price.
You've gained a great insight! Yes, the price changes greatly depending on
how interested you are. Yes, the price is written on your forehead, in your eyes,
around your mouth muscles, and in the changes in contrast of color on different
parts of your skin. Your price also depends on your voice (its tone, speed, rhythm
and pitch), on your posture and, for Dinivaldo, on how badly you want the stone.
His price is related to his cost only in the last case.
So how do we deal with this tradition of doing business which has been
perfected over the last five thousand years? One option is to read books and to
study body language and the new science of psycho-linguistics (more often called
neurolinguistics). Learn what they were taught on the street or by family. A better
way, when applicable, is simply refuse to play their game, as in the above example.
Throughout the East and in South America one often hears, "But that's what
business is all about--negotiating." "The money is made in the buy." You can
reply, "Perhaps your business and money is made that way, but mine isn't. I make
my money from buying and selling at a profit and the more time I spend doing
that and the less I waste on negotiating, the more money I make. So don't waste
my time and give me the right price right away!"
One should read books, study, or perhaps take courses on how to negotiate and
on anything else that affects their business. This does not mean that
you have to play by their rules. As long as it's your ball (money), you can play by
your rules. Remember that.

David Stanley Epstein
Author: "The Gem Merchant
-How to be one, How to deal with one."
E-mail: davids@cdlto.com.br <mailto:davids@cdlto.com.br>
Tel: +55 33 3522-4724
Fax:+55 33 3521-5098


None Today!








PERSONALS: (General Lapidary and Faceting)






Lurking is fine, but participation is better for learning !
Post something from your experiences in gemcutting today!


Customer:   "I  got  this problem.  You people sent me this install
    disk, and now my A: drive won't work."

Tech Support:  "Your A: drive won't work?"

Customer:  "That's what I said.  You sent me a bad disk, it got stuck
    in my drive, now it won't work at all."

Tech Support:  "Did it not install properly?  What kind of error
    messages did you get?"

Customer:   "I didn't get any error message.  The disk got stuck in
    the drive and wouldn't come out.  So I got these pliers and tried
    to get it out.  That didn't work either."

Tech Support:  "You did what, sir?"

Customer:   "I got these pliers, and tried to get the disk out, but it
    wouldn't budge.  I just ended up cracking the plastic stuff a

Tech Support:  "I don't understand sir, did you push the eject

Customer:   "No,  so then I got a stick of butter and melted it and
    used a  turkey baster and put the butter in the drive, around the
    disk, and that got it loose.  I can't believe you would send me a
    disk that was broken and defective."

Tech  Support:   "Let  me get this clear.  You put melted butter in
    your A:  drive and used pliers to pull the disk out?"

At this point,  he put the call on the speaker phone and motioned at the
other techs to listen in.

Tech Support:  "Just so I am absolutely clear on this, can you repeat
    what you just said?"

Customer:   "I  said I put butter in my A: drive to get your disk out,
    then I had to use pliers to pull it out."

Tech  Support:   "Did you push that little button that was sticking
    out when the disk was in the drive, you know, the thing called the
    disk eject button?"

 - Silence -

Tech Support:  "Sir?"

Customer:  "Yes."

Tech Support:  "Sir, did you push the eject button?"

Customer:   "No, but you people are going to fix my computer, or I am
    going to sue you for breaking my computer."

Tech Support:  "Let me get this straight.  You are going to sue our
    company because you put the disk in the A: drive, didn't follow
    the instructions we sent you, didn't actually seek professional
    advice, didn't consult your user's manual on how to use your
    computer properly, instead proceeding to pour butter into the
    drive and physically rip the disk out?"

Customer:  "Ummmm."

Tech Support:  "Do you really think you stand a chance, since we do
    record every call and have it on tape?"

Customer:  (now rather humbled)  "But you're supposed to help!"

Tech Support:  "I am sorry sir, but there is nothing we can do for
    you.  Have a nice day."



Just think how much deeper the ocean would be if sponges didn't live there.

---Author Unknown---


is produced by Thurmond Moore III

Tempie Francis, Attorney at Law / Legal Advisor


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