Issue No. 133 - Thursday May 22, 2003
Moderated by: Thurmond Moore III
Committed to carrying on the fine works of
Hale Sweeny and Jerry Dewbre
From the Moderator:

Hi Folks, I have been granted vacation until
next Tuesday so I am leaving town just as fast as I
can to avoid being "called in". There will be no digest
Friday or Monday. The Digest will be back on
Tuesday, 27 May, 2003. Until then keep posting
so I have to work hard on Tuesday's edition. LOL

Everyone have a great Holiday weekend.

Index to Today's Digest

01  RE: Astorite vs. Rhodonite
02  RE: Interesting Customer Problem and other tidbits
03  NEW: Rainbow Matrix
04  RE: BIO Dolly / Copper Lap Questions
05  RE: Spamming Dirtbag Alert.
06  FS: Advertisement; UltraTec for Sale
07  FS: kunzite, topaz, hiddenite
08  RE: Faceters Symposium 2003


Subject: Re: Issue No. 132 - Wednesday May 21, 2003
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 12:52:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: LapidaryArtsDigest <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: Carl Downey <alckytxn@swbell.net>

Astorite vs. Rhodonite
From: "Jill St. Michael"

We've had some recent interest in a "new" gem (cabbing) material called
"Astorite." However, I'm aware that there is some controversy over whether
this material is actually a new find, or if it is, in fact, Rhodonite. I've
done some cursory research and it certainly LOOKS like Rhodonite... We're
considering purchasing some of the material and my primary concern is that
we represent the material accurately to our buyers.

Any experience or information provided would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Jill St. Michael
RRGaetan Gem Rough

Howdy Jill,

The term Astorite is a marketing term for Rhodonite (supposedly) from the old
Jacob(?) Astor (of Titanic fame) mine. It supposedly assays to have a lot of
silver and other PMs in it. Were you not told this story? I would think it would
be essential for the seller to explain this and support the 'provenance' -
otherwise it is 'just' rhodonite. I haven't cut any of the slabs I have yet but I
guess, at this point, I believe the hype. I'm just not sure it matters unless one
of the shopping channels starts hyping it too.



1 Lucky Texan


Subject: Re: Issue No. 132 - Wednesday May 21, 2003
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:27:51 EDT
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: Rocksinhed@aol.com

Hi List

 I think the best answer so far to the "interesting problem" was the "Have a
Vodka and tonic" It's all you can do sometimes to make yourself happy because
some customers NEVER are!

 Well, while I'm here I might as well ask a question

 I just purchased a large amount of facet rough and would like to know if it
needs to be oriented ... Blue Zircon and Orthoclase .. If anyone has any great
patterns it would be appreciated also

 Saw Cutting oil tip: I use mineral oil as it is not carcinogenic (as far as
I know) and doesn't smell. I ran low the other night and went to the store to
get some... (I usually buy it in large quantities to slab dinosaur bone) When
I saw the price for a pint I went nuts but I did need it as I walked around
thinking of what else has mineral oil in it, It came to me ... BABY OIL ... and
it was on sale ... It didn't smell bad and it was pure accept for the
fragrance! It saved the day until I could get another shipment

Thanks for all the help on the Class Ring .... My neighbor is so happy to
send his "Class Ring" back to the manufacturer for free he came over to look at
my work and might want to start cutting himself!     

Have a great day!

Jimmy Quigley        Rocksinhed@aol.com  


Subject: Rainbow Matrix
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 20:12:27 -0700
To: "LapidaryArtsDigest" <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Kenneth Kipnis" <kkipnis@knology.net>

Hi Thurmond:

While I visited quartzsite in January  I purchased some rainbow matrix
and I misplaced the directions for cooking same. Anyone on the list have
that information?
Ken Kipnis


Subject: Re: bio Dolly
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:02:16 -0500
To: LapidaryArtsDigest <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: Dolly <greykin@attbi.com>

Carl wrote:
>        You should SO join the AGMC

<twinkling smile>
done deal

> and bring your machine to the beginners faceting class!

will do

meanwhile I have some questions
I'll post them next

Subject: Copper lap composition?
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:25:08 -0500
To: LapidaryArtsDigest <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: Dolly <greykin@attbi.com>

Ok, I have some used copper laps
no labels
is there any way to figure out what a lap was charged with?

I want to know what they are made of
ya ya "copper"...
plus what? if anything

I started thinking that since I wasn't certain of some of the laps
history, not sure of the grit and wondering about possible cross
contamination issues...
(what little I've read has put the fear of god into me about keeping
things clean)
so I figured I'd ask my friendly local machinist to mill them smooth and
I'd start fresh.
my friendly local machinist (best bro-in-law in the world) explained to
me that copper isn't um lathe-friendly so to speak. Copper gets all
gummy, balls up and won't cut smooth. But he thinks the laps might be
made of copper plus something else to make it harder, and in that case
he could clean them up for me.

feasible or not?

better ideas?

I read somewhere about using Lava soap to clean laps.
Is that a good idea?
Lava the brand of hand soap with pumice in it?



Subject: Subject: Spamming Dirtbag Alert.
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 00:27:14 -0300
To: LapidaryArtsDigest <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: Robert <robertplowejr@uol.com.br>

22 May 2003

 >Subject: Spamming Dirtbag Alert.
 >Boycott requested. "Artigas Minerals"

Are you unhappy because you got an unsolicited
e-mail from the company or have you had unfavorable
dealings with them??

We have done business with their representatives in
Brasil and up to the present moment have not had
any reason to consider them anything less than reputable.
We would welcome your feedback.

Best regards,
Robert Lowe
Lowe Associates - Brasil
Gemstones, Rough, Specimens
Tucson - February 5 - 10, 2004 - GJX # 205
e-mail: USA    <robertplowejr@juno.com> February 2004
e-mail: Brasil <robertplowejr@uol.com.br>


Subject: Advertisement
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 17:02:43 EDT
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: Ballent@aol.com

Hello the list.

I am selling my Ultra Tec V2 Faceting Machine - right-hand base/mast. I
bought this machine new in May of 2000 and it is still in like-new condition.
I have cut approximately 200 stones on it and everything is in excellent working
condition. The basic machine includes all the standard items such as drip
tank, transfer fixture, 45-degree tabling adapter, 96-index gear, set of 12
dops, wrenches, drain hose, owner's manual and video.

I also have many additional items for the UT including:
Dial indicator, Flex lamp, Dust cover, 4-Index gears (64, 80, 72, 120)
28 Flat dops: 1-2mm, 1-3mm, 1-4mm, 6-5mm, 6-6m, 6-8mm, 2-9mm, 2-12mm, 1-14mm
1-16mm, 1-19mm
28 Cone dops: 1-2mm, 1-3mm, 1-4mm, 6-5mm, 6-6mm, 6-8mm, 2-9mm, 2-12mm,
1-14mm, 1-16mm, 1-19mm
28 Vee dops: 1-2mm, 1-3mm, 1-4mm, 6-5mm, 6-6mm, 6-8mm, 2-9mm, 2-12mm, 1-14mm
1-16mm, 1-19mm)
8 Emerald dops of various sizes

Used 8" laps in good, serviceable condition:
Raytech Dimafast P 260 lap
Crystalite=A0=A0 600 standard lap
Crystalite 1200 standard lap
Crystalite 1200 solid steel lap
Crystalite 3000 standard lap
Ceramic lap
Copper charged with 50K diamond
Copper charged with 100K diamond
Crystalite unmounted 180 plate (new)
Crystalite unmounted 360 plate (new)

I will sell everything listed as a unit for $2500 plus shipping. Or, if
anyone is interested in just the basic unit as described in the first paragraph, I will
sell it for $1800.00 plus shipping. I love my Ultra Tec, it is the
Cadillac of faceting machines . . . but I encountered the opportunity to acquire
the Lamborghini of faceting machines for a price that I just couldn't turn
down. The UT is in excellent condition!

I plan to put the unit on auction on Ebay Sunday or Monday if no one on the
lists is interested. E-mail me and let me know. Thanks.

Tim Ballentine (ballent@aol.com)


Subject: kunzite, topaz, hiddenite
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 10:51:38 -0700
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "b-daw" <b-daw@pacbell.net>

hi everybody,
just checking in to say thank you for all the inquiries on the crystals
i am offering.  i wanted to clarify a couple of pieces of info.  the
large orange topaz is 650g not 500g as i previously stated.  there is
also an ultra large kunzite weighing in at 1kg, crystal clear, for sale.
 what a monster of a kunzite!
if you know anybody with a museum interested in the kilo kunzite, or
anybody is interested in any of the speicmens, (i still have some of the
champagne topaz) please email off the digest.
as always, i am here to provide,
so cal

Subject: Faceters Symposium 2003
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 18:24:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: LAPIDARY ARTS & FACETERS DIGEST <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: Glenn Klein <glennklein@yahoo.com>

Hi Everyone:
Well the Faceters Symposium 2003 at Ventura, California is almost upon us.  Two
weeks from Friday the Symposium begins.  That is only 16 days from NOW!  This
will be an outstanding opportunity for all faceters to hear some great speakers,
mix with fellow faceters, and have an enjoyable week-end at the beach.
You can still get the packet of information which lists the schedule of events
and the hotel information, maps, as well as the competition information and other
stuff.  Just Email me now, and be sure to give me your snail mail post office
address so that I can mail you the packet.
Time is getting so short, if you just want to send your $90 in to me, I will make
sure that you will be welcomed at the Symposium like all the other attendees. 
Just tell me that you are coming and will pay at the door.  But do us all a
favor, tell me now that you will be coming so that I can update our order with
the Fairgrounds Caterer who will be supplying us with the goodies for the Friday
evening Hospitality Hour and the Saturday Awards Luncheon.  I cannot change the
order in the last couple of days, which is reasonable.  So let me know now that
you are coming.  I will take you at your word....after all, you are a fellow
I have another addition to our long list of speakers and special guests.  DAVID
ICHELSON will be one of our speakers along with the many others at the Symposium.
 David is a diamond cutter.  He is anxious to join us so that he can share his
diamond cutting expertise with us.  He mentioned to me that he admires how we
colored stone cutters will share our ideas, methods, and successful ways in
cutting colored gems.  He wishes that the diamond industry would do the
same....share information, instead of being a closed shop of hiding information. 
David will discuss some of the methods we use that will work as well for
diamonds, and also those steps in our cutting which will not work with diamonds. 
Every once in awhile the subject comes up, can we cut diamonds on our Facetron or
Ultra Tec?  Ask David and hear what he has to say about our equipment.  David has
some ideas about his basic idea of how to present the geometric solution for the
bowtie problem in cutting....like in the Marquise cuts. 
If you have not started, it is too late to cut your stone for the Novice,
Advanced, and Masters stones in our Symposium competition.  But all of you who
attend can bring your PRETTIEST STONE and enter our MY BEAUTIFUL GEM contest when
you arrive at the Symposium.  Forget mailing it it, you dreamer.  You thought
that you could relax in your recliner with a beer in front of the TV and have
your stone win a trophy for you.  What a dreamer you are.  You have to bring it
to the Symposium!
On a sad note.  GLENN VARGAS called me to say that he cannot make the Symposium
at Ventura.  He was going to bring two cases of his stones.  But his knee has
gotten the best of him.  Although he told me that this was probably the last
gathering of faceters that he would be able to mix with, he just cannot make
it....and it is upsetting him greatly!  He would be in a wheel chair anyway, but
was determined to come to Ventura.  His Son was going to drive him.  But the pain
in his leg has gotten un-bearable, and he is seeing his doctor now to set up an
operation in a week or so.  Believe me, if it was at all possible, he would be at
Ventura.  Glenn is our faceting hero.  He and his wife Martha have done more for
faceting than any other ten people combined.....in my estimation.  We all owe
Glenn the very most!
On a happy note.  You all have the opportunity to attend a fantastic Symposium
devoted entirely to faceters.  There has never been one like this before, and I
think it will be many years before it is every topped....if at ever.
Our outstanding list of speakers include:
Steve Ulatowski, New Era Gems
Ralph Mathewson
Art Kavan
Robert Strickland
Jonathan (Gearloose) Rolfe
Thomas Chatham
Dr. Tony Kampf
Ewing Evans
Bob Long
David Ichelson
And then we will have a Special Guest....Fred Van Sant
Throw in the Friday evening Hospitality Hour for you to mix and meet the other
faceters and the Speakers, and on Saturday noon have the Awards Luncheon to
enjoy, then the Sunday Panel of Experts answer and discusion with the attendees
on whatever faceting subject comes to mind. 
At the close of the Faceters Syposium 2003, Art Kavan will chair a general
meeting for the USFG members present along with any other faceter who is
interested in attending the meeting.  Dan Linder will also be there.
Lets see.  Have I forgotten something?  There is so much to remember and yet so
little time. 
Get off of you butt and decide to attend the Symposium.  You will not be sorry.  
It will be a long time until you will every top this presentation for the bargain
price of $90!
Email me now with your word that you will be attending.  Time is short.  This is
my last attempt to get you to act.  I can be reached at glennklein@yahoo.com or
you can mail your check, made out to the FACETERS GUILD OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
for $90, and you will be one of the lucky faceters in this world.
Glenn Klein, Chairman
Faceters Symposium 2003


Subject: Faceters Symposium 2003
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 08:06:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: LAPIDARY ARTS & FACETERS DIGEST <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: Glenn Klein <glennklein@yahoo.com>

Hi All: Last evening I sent out a post about the Faceters Symposium 2003 which
said in part, "Have I forgotten something?  There is so much to remember and yet
so little time".  Well, I did forget something.  I thought about it in the middle
of the night when I was lying there awake thinking about all of the events of the
day, tomorrow, and two weeks from today. For one thing, if you want to save time
and send in your $90 check for the three day Symposium, make your check out to
Faceters Guild of Southern California, and mail it directly to me.  I will see
that you are treated well.  Send to Glenn Klein, 24001 Muirlands Blvd., Space #
79, Lake Forest, CA 92630. I forgot to mention yesterday that our three Friday
Hospitality Hour sponsors will be at the Symposium along with a display of their
products.  You can ask questions and learn from Ultra-Tec, Facetron, and Don
Roberts with his tips on Concave faceting with the Poly-Metric OMF machine. Have
I still forgotten something?  I am not going to say right now. Glenn Klein,
ChairmanFaceters Symposium 2003









PERSONALS: (General Lapidary and Faceting)






Lurking is fine, but participation is better for learning !
Post something from your experiences in gemcutting today!


Subject: for todays funny
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:49:36 -0400
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: "Don Sommerfield" <dlsomm@hotmail.com>

A 60 year old couple were celebrating their 40th wedding anniversary. She
says let us go out to eat, but he replies that he is not feeling well. She
then cooks a nice meal and while enjoying it, they see a fairy flitting
around the room. The fairy says I can grant you two wishes. The ladys say "I
wish we were on a beautiful tropical island beach." Poof" and there they are
on the beach. He says I wish my wife were 30 years younger than I. "Poof"
and he is 90 years old.



The only place youll find success
before work is in the dictionary.

---May B. Smith---


is produced by Thurmond Moore III

Tempie Francis, Attorney at Law / Legal Advisor


is never sent unsolicited.  You are receiving it
because you subscribed to it at our digest subscription page at:


To unsubscribe, just use the link below and follow the
instructions there:


List Posting Guidelines and rules can be found at:
Published Monday thru Friday, except holidays
from Spur,Texas
Share your love of lapidary with everyone.