Issue No. 156 - Thursday June 26, 2003
Moderated by: Thurmond Moore III
Committed to carrying on the fine works of
Hale Sweeny and Jerry Dewbre
From the Moderator:

Hi All,

Great list today.
Keep it up and enjoy.


Index to Today's Digest

01  RE: meet point problem
02  RE: meet point problem
03  RE: meet point problem
04  RE: meet point problem
05  NEW: Cheater concept
06  RE: Cheater concept
07  NEW: Datel Meters
08  NEW: topaz rough
09  RE: SOLDERING help
10  RE: SOLDERING help


Subject: Meet Point Problem.
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 16:22:06 -0400
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com (LapidaryArtsDigest)
From: "Jonathan L. Rolfe" <webmaster@gearloose.com>

At 01:45 PM 6/25/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>also I am not yet trying to use the index-vernier (cheater). That would
>introduce one more variable in the mix.

You should not have to touch that thing on a simple round if the machine is
true.  One easy head-slapper is a bent dop from a previous owner having a
lap jam-and-crash.
It will drive you nuts, especially after transfer.
Try rolling the dop shank on a piece of flat glass and watching the points
of contact carefully, and see it it has a bulge, etc.


Subject: meet point problem
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:41:29 -0700
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Dale Carriere" <bouver@earthlink.net>

This is for Dolly's post.

Dolly it doesn't sound like you're doing anything wrong. Let's try another

This way of cutting an SRB will eliminate (or drastically reduce) your and
your machine's inherent errors. As you go around the stone one facet after
another errors will accumulate. Both yours and the machine's, if it has gone
out of alignment. You will end up with the final facet being way out of
sync. So let's try this.

You are going to cut ALTERNATE facets, one after the other. I do this all
the time because I tend to be heavy handed. If you're using a 96 index gear
cut the first facet at 96, then go to 48, then to 24 and finally to 72. It
doesn't matter whether you cut the mains first or the breaks first this
principle remains the same. These first four facets are critical so take
your time and do your best.

Tell ya what, let's cut a 16 main SRB pavilion. We'll do it my way. I cut
the breaks first, all the time, it works best for me cutting the breaks
first. Everything just falls into place. We'll use a 96 index gear and cut
the breaks first.

1)    at the break angle cut the first four breaks to a temporary culet meet
at 96, 48, 24 and 72. Take care here.

2)    next four breaks at 12, 60, 36 and 84. Just float them into the
temporary meet point.

3)    now freewheel the index gear and bring in the girdle at 90 degrees,
take your time. You can always facet the girdle later if you care to.

4)    cut the remaining eight breaks at the midpoints eg) 6, 18, 30, etc.,
etc. they should float right in to the established culet meet. Be gentle,
they will                                come in quickly. You should now have
16 break facets all beautifully aligned, equal sized and even.

5)    finish all facets with your prepolish lap, finally adjusting the
temporary culet meet point to perfection. Cut the girdle also. It's
important to do this now.

6)    dial in your main angle and with the prepolish lap cut all mains to
the girdle at the break midpoints eg) 3, 9, 15, etc., etc. The culet should
fall into place with             very little, if any, touching up.

Try this and let me know how it worked for you. Once you do this a couple of
times the cutting goes VERY quickly.

Dale, in S. Cal.


Subject: Meetpoint problems
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:42:11 -0400
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: "denney.wilson" <denney.wilson@worldnet.att.net>

     It is very possible that you are not centered in your dop holder.
 Are your dops those supplied by the manufacturer?  If they are just a
little undersized or the mount is off center, you will get exactly the
problem you detailed.  If you are using a 3rd party dop or some old
ones, try buying at least 1 new dop from the manufacturer.  My bet is
the problem will either disappear or at least become insignificant!

Denney L. Wilson
Wilson Lapidary


Subject: Re: meet point problem
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:54:02 -0500
To: LapidaryArtsDigest <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: Downey <alckytxn@swbell.net>

Howdy Dolly,

My first inclination is to encourage you to just 'distribute the error'
and continue to finish the stone, and come back to troubleshooting the
machine later - get that first stone under your belt! Though one or 2
things come to mind if you want to do more detective work. Inspect the
index gear for some stuck on dirt detritus. A soft old tooth brush may
help clean the gear after brushing around it 2-3 times. In the past, on
UT user said he found a cat's whisker stuck in there and it caused him
much grief. Also, you could try beginning the sequence at - say - index
24 (whatever - 90degs from 0) and see if the problem facet is at the
same INDEX as before or is always the LAST one regardless of where you
start. Do keep in mind your EYE is the final judge, this why we
sometimes need to 'cheat' or 'distribute the error'. Often times, any
error is so slight it can be cheated out during the polishing stage.
Also, the placement of the pavilion facets is critical. The girdle
factes are nice to have lined up well as they will be used to determine
dpth and placemnet of the first tier of crown facets after xfer. BUT,
even if a girdle facet is a little wide of narrow, you can still use
your EYE to judge a crown facet's position over a pavilion facet.
Remember, a lot of beautiful stones have been cut with NO girdle facets.
Keep us informed and I'll want to see that stone next time we meet at
the club OK?
1 Lucky Texan


Subject: Cheater concept
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:59:07 -0500
To: lapidaryarts <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: Dolly <greykin@attbi.com>


I am not quite getting the cheater concept.

Thought problem
given a perfect cylinder centered on the dop
1. Set the cheater dead center.
2. Set the angle at 45 degrees.
3. Cut a series of 4 facets at 0, 24, 48, and 72
result a pyramid of four sides, equal proportions, 90 degree angles...

new stone
reset the cheater waay off to the right
repeat 2 and 3
any difference between the two stones?



Subject: Re: Cheater concept
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:33:35 -0500
To: lapidaryarts <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: Dolly <greykin@attbi.com>

Am I right in thinking the cheater is essentially a micro adjustment to
the Index gear?



Subject: Datel Meters
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:00:12 -0700
To: ILA Lapidary Arts digest <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "George H. Kaufmann" <fiveoaksgems@atlantic.net>

Hi List Members,

Last night I purchased 10 Datel Led Panel Meters.  I expect delivery
some time next week.  I only need two of the meters and I am offering
the remaining eight to any list members that would like one of them to
build a digital angle readout for their faceting machine.  This is the
meter that is featured in gearloose's WEB site "How to build the DPM
angle readout".  (DMS-40PC-1)

My cost is $12.20 per meter and will sell them foe $16.00 each which
includes shipping.  These meters cost just under $80.00 from Datel.  If
you would like to see these meters go to the WEB sight shown below.  The
circuit boards that are attached to the meter will have to be unsoldered
from the meter before it can be used for the angle readout.



Subject: topaz rough
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:06:37 -0700
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "b-daw" <b-daw@pacbell.net>

greetings thrumond and all!
thank you for the great response on the kunzites.  i dont have any
really great stories to tell, except that i am in the process of setting
up an appointment with mr. blue sheppard of www.mmmgems.com, for gem
sales.  blue is the owner or one of the owners for the great pala area
mines, in jparticular i can think of the stewart mine.  i visited their
store one time in search of a gravel bag, but they were not producing
them at that time.  in parting, i wanted to mention that i also have
some really nice colorless/honey colored topaz crystals, complete with
termination, so you know where your axis are, for $1.50/g!
take care everybody,
so cal


Subject: Thanks :-) and Why do you love it?
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:49:43 -0500
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Carol Carter-Wientjes" <lavenderfish@cox.net>

To those of you who responded to my inadvertant soldering S.O.S., a
hardy Thank You. My standard mantra before starting to solder something
is "Patience, Grasshopper" and tongue-in-cheek "It's Only Silver" [as
opposed to ROCKS which are GOLD in my little world :-) ]

I am yes, already a member of Orchid, another wonderful group of folks
as a lot of you may already be aware. I was glad to have stumbled onto
its "sister" lapidary-oriented version (Lapidary Arts Digest!) to feed
my rock lovin' interests too. Am gleefully doing my part to carry on the
lapidary torch and even at 43, still have plenty of good slabbin',
cabbin' & carvin' years ahead.

Maybe this will start a new discussion? because its something I reflect
on every day....Why do you love lapidary? What is that you "dig" about
it so much? Ok, I'll go first..... I only wish that the friends and
family who affectionately tease me about my rockitis disease of "playing
with rocks" all the time could know these things; genuine joy just from
the way a rock smells and how your whole shop gets that Wonderful earthy
fragrance to it. There's just something about that that touches
something deep inside me like nothing else can. The ooooh & ahhhh moment
after you cut away the matrix and discover an awesome pattern hiding
inside. And that when you meet other rockhounds, there's this instant
kindred spirit thing, you can trust each other. Rockhounds IMO (unbiased
of course!) are just the most down-to-earth (literally on all 4's
digging something OUT of it sometimes eh!!?), nicest people around. I
liken it to a "calling" that some of us were darned lucky to get and
dunno about you, but I can't live a day without it in some way, shape or
form. Case in point, my sister-in-law is planning a family trip for all
of us and told me yesterday that I'm not allowed to bring any rocks with
me. To which I responded, "Okay, no problem. But you didn't say anything
about not bringing some BACK!"  Ha!

Wishing you all a great day :-) Carol


Subject: Re: Issue No. 155 - Wednesday June 25, 2003
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:35:14 EDT
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: PANACHEGEMS@cs.com

That's funny about the Soldering Teacher drinking beer. When I first started
in Jewelry I had a very good Jeweler come to my house (I bought everything
that's in a reg. shop) every Tuesday and Thursday night. Now let me tell you
these lessons were by no means free, very expensive. About the same as a school
without the boarding and meals attached. He told me at the beginning, Oh Yeah'
always have a case of beer as I don't know how long the lessons will last. This
guy would stay until the last beer was gone. I have watched this guy do
things with gold you would not believe. I watched him repair a six tier, hand
ring, built around 1900 that took me six seconds with a torch to destroy.  It
was all hand made and had been repaired about a 100 times. That is when I
learned the difference in the way Jewelers make repairs and what kind of gold
solder they used. He just laughed at the approximately 14 pieces of the ring I
in a bag, not counting the stones that fell out. He had it like brand new in
less than 20 min. Yes, he was a Pro' and no I don't know about his daily
habits at the bench either.
AC Hughes









PERSONALS: (General Lapidary and Faceting)






Lurking is fine, but participation is better for learning !
Post something from your experiences in gemcutting today!


Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: TODAY'S QUOTES]
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:25:50 -0500
To: IFA Faceter's Digest <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: Downey <alckytxn@swbell.net>

"Life isn't like a box of chocolates, it's more like
a jar of jalapenos -- you never know what's going
to burn your rear."

I love deadlines. I especially like the Whooshing
sound they make as they go flying by.

Tell me what you need, and I'll tell you how to
get along without it.

Accept that some days you are the pigeon and
most days the statue.

Needing someone is like needing a parachute.
If he isn't there the first time, chances are you
won't be needing him again.

I don't have an attitude problem, you have a
perception problem.

Last night I lay in bed looking up at the stars in
the sky and I thought to myself, where the hell is
the ceiling?

My reality check bounced.

On the keyboard of life, always keep one finger
on the escape key.

I don't suffer from stress. I am a carrier.

You are slower than a herd of turtles stampeding
through peanut butter.

Everyone is someone else's weirdo.

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down
to their level then beat you with experience.

A pat on the back is only a few centimeters from
a kick in the rear.

Don't be irreplaceable - if you can't be replaced,
you won't be promoted.

After any salary raise, you will have less money
at the end of the month than you did before.

You can go anywhere you want if you look serious
and carry a clipboard.

So this isn't Home Sweet Home ... Adjust!

Ring bell for maid service. If no answer,
do it yourself!

I clean house every other day. Today is the
other day.

Best regards,



He who knows that enough is enough will always have enough.

---Lao Tsu---


is produced by Thurmond Moore III

Tempie Francis, Attorney at Law / Legal Advisor


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