Issue No. 155 - Wednesday June 25, 2003
Moderated by: Thurmond Moore III
Committed to carrying on the fine works of
Hale Sweeny and Jerry Dewbre
From the Moderator:

Hi All,

Great list today. Quite a few varied topical post.
Keep it up and enjoy.


Index to Today's Digest

01  NEW: Herkimer Diamonds......Ace Of Diamond Mine
02  RE: SOLDERING help
03  RE: Rock Shops in Montana
04  NEW: meet point problem
05  NEW: Asking about LH
06  NEW: Gustavo and his designs
07  NEW: Optical Axis
08  RE: Gemstone Enhancement Disclosure
09  RE: SOLDERING help


Subject: Herkimer Diamonds......Ace Of Diamond Mine
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:37:52 -0400
To: "LapidaryArtsDigest" <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Peter In Maine" <kulaczp@pivot.net>

Hi ......to everyone....just got back from a long vacation , part spent
picken diamonds ( quartz that is )  at Herkimer New York...the other part
spent fishing in the Saranac River and also Lake Chazy......( up state
N.Y. ) Joe got a 10 pound Northern Pike.....we totaled some 200 trout...

We camped out at the KOA campground across the road from the mining site and
here is the rest of the story.....I have been waiting to go here for 40
years......was worth the wait for sure...

Herkimer's are formed in a limestone / dolomite rock which happens to be
some 500 million years old. The actual crystals are in pockets of this rock
and form in anthraxalite vugs.  It seems bacteria helped clean up the
trapped water and start the process... They liked the hydorcarbons and ate
them leaving good stuff for the growth of the quartz crystals.
The Ace Of  Diamonds is run by a great guy named Ted......also flies his
airplane ever night above the area...and keeps the dumps filled with new
material.... We did not have a clue what to do but after the first day we
were experts in using big sledges and hand tools..
The rock is very hard and you do not just break any ole' piece but look for
the tell tail signs of vugs. My first day total was 55 loose herk's from
clobbering rocks and 3 matrix pices....My second day ( smart now ) was a
killer ...I noticed this big 400 plus pound boulder , it spoke to me and
said turn me over...Well I did and found vugs and crystals in its sides...I
then ascertained a point of entry for a good sized chisel and used a hand
held 6 pound sledge to adjust the rocks disposition.
It popped right in half and reveiled some 30 pockets filled with herk's.. I
collected some 6 clusters with more than 8 xtals in each cluster...Crystals
were up to 3/4 " of an inch long ,,,,,!    The rock produced over 200
total.....Third day was just as good but no big rocks , just smaller
specimens to break up.. The fourth day I decided to go digging in the
existing mud / dirt / rubble ( not Barney that is ) and came up with mucho
loose crystals.. My son Joe found a 1 incher with a 1/4 inch enhydro and
anthraxalite branch in it....Best specimen of the whole trip. Only 1 in a
thousand have water bubbles... Our last day was spent digging and getting
loose specimens after the rain that came in.......We did extremely well and
all others that took the time to work the rock did well also. I learned a
lot from Nancy the Herkimer lady from R.I. , who came up with her husband
Steve.....they just got hitched on popa's day.....She spent 10 years working
the ledges here and is also a Geologist....
In closing I would like to say that the trip was a dream come true and the
last 10 minutes of my picking produced a crystal that is 3 inches
long.....My gift from the Herkimer Rock Gods......I counted 50 plus matrix
pieces and some 250 plus crystals......25 percent A grade diamonds........I
figure between Joe and I got over  $ 2500.00 dollars worth of
rocks.......Oh, the fee is 7 bucks a day to pick...........
Try it if your in that area, it is beautiful country and Remington Fire Arms
is in the next town over,,, great gun museum.....

Peter .........Maine was 87 degrees today.........


Subject: Soldering/another trip.
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:01:25 -0500
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Rich" <richtherm@bluemarble.net>


Have a funny story about soldering.  I went to a local shop and asked
the jeweler on duty if he would give me a couple classes.  This, of
course, was after turning several pieces of gold to pretty gold beads. 
The guy said sure but to bring beer.  We sat at his shop in his house
and after he had drank about 6-7 beers we were on to the course of
learning.  It seems it steadied his hand because he did wondrous things
with the torch, not to say anything about how he didn't even react when
he would grab a hot job and not even flinch.  I have always wondered how
he worked his day job,,,,,  probably better that I don't know.


I'm headed overseas next month (for about a month) and was wondering if
there were any list members in Spain, Italy or Greece who could set me
up with some local stuff......  Italian gold comes to mind, or any other
lapidary adventures I might enjoy.....


Rich Ashcraft
Lyons, IN


Hi Rich,  All I keep is members e-mail addresses. Unless the member is a regular poster
I do not usually even know their names when they sign up for the list. Hopefully if there are
members in those areas they will respond. If not then why not sign a few up while you are
traveling. LOL



Subject: RE: Rock Shops in Montana
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:42:31 -0400
To: "'LapidaryArtsDigest'" <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Kerry Marsh" <kmarsh@hemc.net>

Butte used to have a couple.  The Gem & Mineral Club there owns a
crystal mine claim that is open to the public.  There was also a rock
shop in Helena.
Kerry Marsh


Subject: meet point problem
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:29:51 -0500
To: lapidaryarts <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: Dolly <greykin@attbi.com>

as a reminder I recently acquired an old UltraTec
and am a newbie to faceting
so am sort of learning as I go
till Sept anyway

meanwhile back at the ranch...

I finally began actually cutting a stone.
Cut a series of 16 facets creating a cylinder. Cut the next series of
facets at the same index numbers for a pavilion. They won't match up.

I can start with the girdle, and then start matching things up on the
pavilion and the last facet is off, or I can cut the pavilion to be
perfect (seemingly) and then start matching up the girdle and that last
facet will not meet.

Basically it runs sort of like this...

The pavilion seems to be matching up fine. Each facet comes to one point
at the top. No chisel points. And to the eye, (using a loupe) they seem
to be approximately the same size, or width. Even triangles. But they
are off at the girdle. Not quite matching up. Maybe the walls of the
cylinder are not quite equal. No problem (she thinks) I'll recut the
girdle to match the pavilion.

I change the angle to 90 to recut the girdle (walls of the cylinder) and
start matching each to its neighbor on the pavilion. Checking as I go,
the corners all seem to meet right where they should. Parallel sides...
equal width, all same height. But the final one (doesn't matter where I
begin on the index gear) that final girdle facet will need to be cut
less deep or it will seemingly overshoot the pavilion meet points. That
one facet, a wall of the cylinder will be lower than the others if I
match it up to the pavilion widthwise. Obvious to the eye... it is maybe
1/2 to 1/3 mm shorter. <she estimates>. If I cut deeper, so that girdle
facet seems the same height as its neighbors, that facet will then
appear wider than the other cylinder (girdle) facets, and of course
wider than the corners of its neighboring pavilion facet.

Basically, I don't suspect the machine.
I think it is a user problem.
tho I have wondered if this is evidence of "spiraling". And what I can
do about it if so.

also I am not yet trying to use the index-vernier (cheater). That would
introduce one more variable in the mix.

Any ideas out there?



Subject: Asking about LH
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:44:20 -0400
To: LapidaryArtsDigest <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: Walter Greenwood <walterg@nauticom.net>

Hi folks.

Does anyone know if Lew Helfich in Bakersfield is OK?



Subject: Gustavo and his designs
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:33:00 -0400
To: Lapidary arts and faceters digest <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: Dan Clayton <dclayton@speakeasy.net>

Hello Thurmond and list,

I have heard from Gustavo a couple times now since he has
moved back to Colombia. He seems to be doing well and is
getting furniture in his office/cutting shop this week. I don't
think he has a fast connection for net and email. I wish him
well. I was surprized to hear that he has never received a
direct email from someone that liked one of his designs. I
have had many people tell me thay enjoy his designs. If
you have cut one or more and liked it/them please drop
him an email in Colombia. Gustavo's email in Colombia:


Yes that is really his email and it works. His designs are
still at:


Dan Clayton

I don't mind hearing from people that like my designs either.
And if you find a problem on the site or a design please
send me an email



Subject: Optical Axis
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:25:10 +0600
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "R&D" <r&d.gemonics@vinet.lk>

Hi All,
I have a problem of identifying optical axis of sapphire roughs. I know,
 table facet must be perpendicular to C axis to get the color enhanced,
but almost all faceted stones by me( blue and yellow sapphires) have
mixed color flashes(light and dark) when I see those after cutting. That
brings me a 'headache' after a hard work. Can someone explain me the
correct methodology to identify the C axis at the rough form of


Subject: Re: Gemstone Enhancement Disclosure
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:06:31 -0700
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com (LapidaryArtsDigest)
From: Tony <lightbender@thegemdoctor.com>

On June 23, 2003 04:22 pm, you wrote:
> While surfing the internet, I ran across an interesting
> "gemstone grading guide" to disclose all enhancements to gems,
> by the American Gem Trade Association (AGTA).

Hello Doug,

The bit that amuses me is the one treatment that wasn't
mentioned,  is never disclosed and is more unnatural and
deceptive than all the others combined, but then that's what we
do for fun and/or profit. grin :-)

I'm sure they work hand in glove with those guys that debase
noble metals with all kinds of cheap rubbish and stamp them as
quality goods and pretend that they sell precious metals.

To do my part in confusing the public I have put together a small
list of gemstone misnomers which may interest some of the list;
this page is NOT navigable from the site.

I don't disclose, I invoice.


Subject: SOLDERING help
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 06:03:43 -0300
To: LapidaryArtsDigest <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: Robert <robertplowejr@uol.com.br>

25 June 2003

 >Maybe that won't happen until after I "graduate" by conquering my
 >nemesis, SOLDERING. Argh.... :-)~

If you are not already a member, you should consider joining the Orchid
discussion list. It is a discussion forum of many thousands of people
involved in the various aspects of the Jewelry industry - professionals,
students and also hobbyists - who ask questions and get many useful
answers about how to solve jewelry related problems. There is also some
discussion about gemstones once in awhile

You can get on it in the Digest version or receive the e-mails as they
are posted (I find the digest version more convenient as I only get one
e-mail at the end or beginning of the day containing all of the posts)

You can also do a search of the archives for information about your
problem areas. Below is the contact information for getting on the
discussion list.
Over 5,000 Readers gets this Newsletter daily!
* *      O r c h i d   D i g e s t        * *

All issues of Orchid-Digest are copyrighted
Archives are available from http://www.ganoksin.com/orchid/archive
All rights reserved The Ganoksin Project 1996-2003
Best regards,
Robert Lowe
Lowe Associates - Brasil
Gemstones, Rough, Specimens
Tucson - February 5 - 10, 2004 - GJX # 205
e-mail: USA    <robertplowejr@juno.com> February 2004
e-mail: Brasil <robertplowejr@uol.com.br>









PERSONALS: (General Lapidary and Faceting)






Lurking is fine, but participation is better for learning !
Post something from your experiences in gemcutting today!


Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:54:14 -0500
To: IFA Faceter's Digest <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: Downey <alckytxn@swbell.net>


After every Qantas Airlines flight, pilots complete a gripe sheet which
conveys to the mechanics problems encountered with the aircraft during
the flight that need repair or correction. The form used is a piece of
paper on which the pilot completes the top part listing the problem,
which the mechanics read and then respond in writing on the lower half
of the form what remedial action was taken, so the pilot on the next
flight of that plane can review the form before taking off. Never let it
be said that ground crews and engineers lack a sense of humor.

Here are some actual logged maintenance complaints and responses (P =
the problem logged by the pilot, S = the solution and action taken by
engineers.) Qantas, by the way, is the only major airline that has never
had an accident.

P: Left inside main tire almost needs replacement.

S: Almost replaced left inside main tire.

P: Test flight OK, except auto-land very rough.

S: Auto-land not installed on this aircraft.

P: Something loose in cockpit.

S: Something tightened in cockpit.

P: Dead bugs on windshield.

S : Live bugs on back order.

P: Auto-pilot in altitude hold mode produces a 200 feet per minute descent.

S: Cannot reproduce problem on ground.

P: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear.

S: Evidence removed.

P: DME volume unbelievably loud.

S: DME volume set to more believable level.

P: Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick.

S: That's what they're there for.

P: IFF inoperative.

S: IFF always inoperative in OFF mode.

P: Suspected crack in windshield.

S: Suspect you're right.

P: Number 3 engine missing.

S: Engine found on right wing after brief search.

P: Aircraft handles funny.

S: Aircraft warned to straighten up, fly right and be serious.

P: Target radar hums.

S: Reprogrammed target radar with lyrics.

P: Mouse in cockpit.

S: Cat installed.



Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

---Oscar Wilde---


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Tempie Francis, Attorney at Law / Legal Advisor


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