Issue No. 176 - Tuesday July 29, 2003
Moderated by: Thurmond Moore III
Committed to carrying on the fine works of
Hale Sweeny and Jerry Dewbre
Hi all,

Great list again today. Keep those post coming in.


Index to Today's Digest

01  RE: Worst cutting experiences
02  NEW: Resources for Cutters and Rockhounds
03  RE: Microscopes on sale
04  RE: Comercial Posts
05  NEW: BATT lap.
06  NEW: Copper lap and Tin lap
07  RE: Worst cutting experiences
08  NEW: Zincite Collector's Piece
10  NEW: Shows in Prague


Subject: Re: Issue No. 175 - Monday July 28, 2003
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:53:03 EDT
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: Clabe@aol.com

In a message dated 7/28/2003 2:45:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
lapidary@caprock-spur.com writes:
Bad Cutting Experience

I liked to cut looking out a large picture window at my place.Which brings me
to the rest of the story, One morning I decided to cut dopping flats on a
bunch of small sapphire. I usually just hold them in my fingers and cut the flats
pretty quickly with a 600 lap. Everything goes well until a neighbor drives
by and I waved with my left hand while cutting the flat, Just enough
distraction that the sapphire slipped from my fingers to the spinning lap. Of
course the
stone hit the window and I ended up with about four hundred pounds of
faceting glass bits all over my table. Wife will not let me cut near a window now
LOL. Also cost a few bucks replacing the 8 X 6 foot window.


Subject: information
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:15:26 -0600
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "jake" <efjke@msn.com>

Mr. Clayton wrote In regards to posting:

 "I think newcomers are even more thankful to hear of places to buy things
because a lot is word of mouth."  For newcomers I decided to list a number
of sites to check for information.  This can seem intimidating when one
starts out and one dose not know where to look, as often, at least in Utah,
the library is of no real help.  Admittedly this is heavily loaded towards
rock hounds and those who want to cab.

  To get away from this subject for a minute, a comment to the discussion on
microscopes may be of interest.  For those who may be interested the IGS in
the archives (product revues) mentions one they recommend for those on a
budget (or not).  I trust these people and I am a cynic by nature.  It dose
have a few limitations, as is, but those can be easily corrected.  This will
serve well as a gemology instrument, and considering the price is more than

Places To Visit
Places you may wish to visit on the web, on all of these sites you may wish
to visit the links, also see their suppliers etc. you will find something
you want or need.  I think this will help someone, do follow the links and
don't be surprised if one or more of your bookmarks show up.  If you like
amethyst get on the IGS site and see recommended suppliers, then look up
unconventional lapidary, they have some that is of the to die for, (if you
like that stone).  This is no knock on other supplies, I waited until a
March show to find a guy to buy some very good turquoise at a very good
price.  Someone had cut at the club in October and we talked about it.

(Project Ideas)
http://www.frii.com/~dnorris (see student work)
http://www.silversmithing.com (See shop talk)

Gem info
(Gemology has information for non-members and a good supplier list, but high end.)
(Has more lessons)

2. Rocks and gem
This is a gold mine of information for rockhounds, another below.
http://www.gemcutters.org/subscribe.htm (links)
http://huntforgems.com/links.html (commercial, but excellent links to other info)

For anyone who may wish to build a really big (and cheep) rock tumbler.

(links to. and also)

E. Jakeman
Ogden, Utah


Subject: Re:Microscopes on sale
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:58:58 -0700
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: Phillip L Stonebrook <plstonebrook@juno.com>

<<From: "Jonathan L. Rolfe" <webmaster@gearloose.com>
<<Why buy a toy when you can get a real binocular microscope that has
both substage and topstage lighting and two set of eyepieces, for $129?
On sale:
Probably Chinese, but  optics works there, too.  And they DID invent

Jon .. or others...
Thanks Jon, for the referral on this scope. This is the lowest priced
scope I've seen that has a good selection of powers from 10x to 45x. Do
you have any first hand knowledge or user time on this scope?  I'm
unfamiliar with this one, it's lighting, and optics, and was wondering if
any user out there could give user feedback. Substage lighting isn't the
same as darkfield, is it?

I was considering the Gem-Oro Elite 1030 from Graves @$300, with
accessory eyepieces for wider power selection 10x to 60x., basically
because it says "true darkfield illumination" with adjustable iris, and a
gem holder.

We have a "club scope" with good optics and a wide power selection, but
without good lighting (no substage or darkfield, overhead with movable
lamp), it's virtually useless.

Phil in Florida


Subject: Comercial Posts
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 02:20:20 -0400
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "RICHARD P ROSENTHAL" <kenaii@earthlink.net>

Hello Everyone,
I`m a "commercial Dealer" although it is not my principal income I post
material on the list three or four times a year occasionally I post to
the list if I feel I am able to add something to the discussion and also
I have several times asked for business related help from list members
such as my request for information on straightening large saw blades. In
fact I would not be the jade business at all if it was not for receiving
the name of my largest supplier from a helpful list member some years
ago. I feel this is a legitimate use of the list and am puzzled that it
suddenly seems so controversial.  I believe anyone who has bought
nephrite from me over the years has been pleased at least I have never
heard otherwise and i wonder who has been hurt or inconvienanced by this
activity. I like to think that I am providing a service to a very fine
comunity and that it is appreciated .  I know I certainly appreciate all
the help I have received from the list over the years this for me has
been a wonderfull resource,  I am well aware that I take more then I
give to the list but this is because there are many others who simply
know much more then I about many of the subjects discussed. I think it
would be a shame if the present policy was changed although it certainly
would not keep me fom recieving or participating in the list. I do not
always check the classifieds but as far as I have seen  the use of
classifieds has not been abused.  I do think that there could be a
mechanism that would allow abuses, such as false advertising to be to be
reported to keep unscruplous dealers to prevented from preying on list
members but so far know of no such cases.Best Wishes Richard



Subject: Re: BATT lap.
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 01:05:22 -0700
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com (LapidaryArtsDigest)
From: Tony <lightbender@thegemdoctor.com>

Hello Thurmond,

I have just acquired (this morning) a BATT lap and am completely
thrilled. To start I charged it by dumping on some 50,000
diamond and using a piece of aquamarine rough that needed a
table polish, I worked the diamond into the lap for a few
seconds,  I checked the clock intending to time the polishing
procedure and then looked at the aqua prior to starting this. I
was amazed to see that I had already finished!

The interesting part of the story is that I had my day planned to
do some opal cutting and a couple of opal inlay jobs which would
consume most of the day, which they did.  I then found myself
playing with my new toy well into the evening and had no idea
how much time had passed.

 I finished cutting and polishing the aqua 10 x 14 pendeloque, 
new crown on a 4 ct tanzanite,  new crown on a 40 point
sapphire,  cut a 2mm ABD rose cut replacement and experienced
instant polishes on everything, The flatness of this lap was
really appreciated with the ABD, as you probably know little
stuff doesn't hang around to be polished on a bumpy lap.

I haven't had this much fun since I started cutting and can't
wait to get to work tomorrow to play some more. If this keeps up
the time savings will pay for this lap in no time!

I haven't just found out about the BATT lap, I 'met' Jon a few
years back in a faceters chat room and asked him about it. I
told him that I was pleased with the results I was getting from
my zinc lap which he conceded was harder than his lap and didn't
see why I should change or try a BATT if I was able to get the
zinc lap to work satisfactorily. I have decided to blame my lack
of BATT over the last few years on Jon's modesty rather than my
know-it-all arrogance.



Subject: Copper lap and Tin lap
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:53:03 +0200
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "R&D" <r&d.gemonics@vinet.lk>

Dear All,

Please share with me the polishing experience you have on copper lap in
compared to Tin lap



Subject: worst experience
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:50:00 -0500
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: Cathy Martinie <cmmartin@uiuc.edu>

Was reading about the worst cutting experiences that other people have had
and thought you would like a good laugh...First off let me say that I am a
newbie and that I do love faceting between 2 jobs and a family I just can't
get the time that I would love to have to facet.   I also have to share the
dinning room table with the rest of the family and their hobbies.

I was cutting my 2nd stone and it flew right off the dop, not an uncommon
thing to happen to someone but the fun part was trying to find the dang
thing.  I got everyone involved in looking for it...under the table, across
the room, everywhere...I even ripped apart the heat register and looked in
there.  Needless to say I was almost reduced to tears.  Three days later it
was found inside the china hutch,  one of the doors on it was open and the
stone had flown into a glass.  So now I keep the door on the hutch open and
if a stone flies off it is the first place I look.  Oh and I also cover the
heat register with a bath towel now (3rd stone flew in there).

I do love the digest and would like to give everyone a pat on the back for all of
the great info that you share.



Subject: Zincite Collector's Piece
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:39:59 -0600
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Todd" <td_gunz@yahoo.com>

Hi all,
            I'm a lurker most of the time.  I'm disabled due to a failed
2-level lumbar spinal surgery which went awry.  I started faceting just
over a year and some ago.  I've cut maybe 100 stones, and have a lot of
fun with it.
            I "window shop" a lot at the different facet rough dealer's
sites, and keep an eye on e-bay.  I know many people have mixed reviews
for rough off of e-bay.  However, I've made several connections for good
rough dealers who were just testing the waters in e-bay and had their
own sites.  It's worth watching and every once in a while you'll see
something neat.
            This link is to a piece of Zincite taken right from the
smoke stack at the smelter in Poland.  Anyone who goes to Tucson knows
they've been bringing less and less every year.  It was originally
discovered by accident when they were cleaning the smoke stack out, and
they found just gobs of the crystals 'growing' in there from the smoke
493> &item=2646044319&category=493
            Most of us have seen a stick or two of Zincite for sale at
different rough dealers, but I thought you'd like to see what a huge
conglomeration looks like broken right out of the chimney.
            B/T/W, I have no affiliation to the seller what so ever and
just stumbled across the picture while browsing e-bay. 
            Thanx for all the advice everyone's given on faceting.  I
can't tell you how many times a question I'd had, was answered by
someone on the digest.  It's a great service and Thurmond deserves a big
THANK YOU for doing this for all of us.
            Keep cutting,
Todd Shinskey


Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 00:18:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: charles bell <bellcha@yahoo.com>

Hello All: I hate to open this can of peas,...but 4 years ago I brought a
RAYTECH/SHAW  facteing machine brand new .I thought  the hand piece
approach would  give me a better edge on inspecting my stones when cutting.
As time went on I noticed  anytime I needed something from this company
I had to go through a dealer rep. I found this to be more irksome  as I found
more fault with the workmanship and design of this  product.However I even
went so far  last year  to endorse their product (in concept) on these very pages.
Now I hear they are no longer going to make handpieces.....no wonder the
fellow posted the other day he wanted tp buy a new RAYTECH/SHAW
handpiece, or whole new machine.
I'LL TELL YOU I'M DISGUSTED,....with the whole outfit...what am I going
to do if a flying stone comes back and chips the paint off my protractor?Or
I am all thumbs when it comes to covering my handpiece with  some sort of
plastic goop to keep them from turning black everytime  I cut a stone-from
the flecking so-called wrinklepaint they used on it in a poor attempt  to control
Oh they're good old boys from a state that makes great guns ;I'll just hang in
there with them till they re-engineer a great new handpiece(if I don't design 
a better one in the first place)But NO!!! they are not interested in continuing
the AMERICAN WAY,..what ever happened to good old YANKEE ENGINEERING?
Look I come from BOSTON where no one has their heads further up their
behinds when it comes to keeping the braintrust on these shores .
But I know there are countless RAYTECH/SHAW customers out there that
are mad as H--- about this. Maybe this shake out will give birth to  some new
real talent when it comes to  the promise  of a  better generation of hand held



Hi Charles, I think Raytech is still going to supply parts but not entire machines.
(for now anyway). I am sure one of their dealers on this list can verify this.




Prague, Czech Republic

PRAGUE 6.th International Fair for Stamps, Coins, Telephone Cards, MINERALS
and Collecting (follow detailed on  www.ppa.cz/cz/sberatel).
September 12. - 14.2003
PRAGUE  30.th Jubilee Mineral & Gem Show, under Prague National Muzeum
organization. It will be in  MENZA V
E (Student`s Canteen in the High Economical
School), ITALSKA 5, PRAHA 3 (Italska Street 5, Prague 3).
October 18. - 19.2003 (before Munich Mineralien Tage Show) in Europe, near CZECH   REPUBLIC :   

 Karel MARIK - Mineral & Gem Collection will display at both shows, with faceted
(designed with GemCad) collectors Gems and great polished STROMATOLITES
from Barrandien Iron Ores Horizons, Quartz fossilized (Pictures on request from) :  marik@mbox.dkm.cz
    With thanks and greetings  K.Marik.
Mineral & Gem Collection


Hi Karel, I will get this included in the next web page update as well.










PERSONALS: (General Lapidary and Faceting)






Lurking is fine, but participation is better for learning !
Post something from your experiences in gemcutting today!


A guy had been feeling down for so long that he finally
decided to seek the aid of a psychiatrist.

He went there, lay on the couch, spilled his guts then
waited for the profound wisdom of the psychiatrist to
make him feel better.

The psychiatrist asked me a few questions, took some
notes then sat thinking in silence for a few minutes with
a puzzled look on his face.

Suddenly, he looked up with an expression of delight
and said, "Um, I think your problem is low self-esteem.
It is very common among losers."



There is nothing so annoying as to have two
people talking when you're busy interrupting.

---Mark Twain---


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