Issue No. 175 - Monday July 28, 2003
Moderated by: Thurmond Moore III
Committed to carrying on the fine works of
Hale Sweeny and Jerry Dewbre
Hi all,

Good list again today.


Index to Today's Digest

01  RE: Comercial Post
02  RE: Worst cutting experiences
03  RE: Machines, Selling Used Machines, & Internet
04  RE: Microscopes on sale.
05  RE: Microscopes
06  NEW: Just Talking
07  RE: Microscopes
08  RE: Where to find a 12 year old.
09  RE: Repetitive Motion Injuries
10  RE: Intel Microscops
11  RE: Repetitive Motion Injuries
12  RE: Worst cutting experiences (lost stones)
13  RE: Comercial Post and free advertising.
14  RE: Worst cutting experiences
15  RE: polishing laps
16  NEW: Nova wheells and Flex Wheel by Eastwind
17  FS: assorted green tourmaline


Subject: I like commercial posts, well sometimes
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:22:19 -0400
To: Lapidary arts and faceters digest <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: Dan Clayton <dclayton@speakeasy.net>

Gerry expressed his opinion about commercial posts but I
appreciate hearing from dealers or individuals with something
faceting related to sell. I think newcomers are even more
thankful to hear of places to buy things because a lot is word
of mouth. Even Mike Williams posts a few commercials for
other dealers and individuals on his more commercial list. I
have seen little sign of abuse on any of the lists. I think a few
commercial posts serve a very useful purpose of keeping us

Dan C


Subject: Faceting Experiences....
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:37:20 -0500
To: "LapidaryArtsDigest" <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Carl Mauritz" <gemhunte@frontiernet.net>

Hi Every One,

My first blopper was with my first stone LOL. I was doing great cutting the
Pavilion untill all of a suden some one started talking to me and I over cut
my next facet. So I thought to my self I have room to recut this so I did
and again wham some one started talking to me about how to facet and so I
again cut to deep. By the time I finnaly cut the paviion right I didn't have
enoff for the crown.  So I had to scrap that one. Well on my secound try
guess what? Every thing went great cutting the pavilion so it was time to do
the transfer. I had trouble with the dop staying on untill a buddy told me
to use glue. So I finnaly got it to stay on the dop and I was so happy then
the evetable happened again I thought I put the dop that came off in acitone
to clean it so when a friend came over to see how I was doing I was so prode
of my first finnished pavilion I had to show him and guess what? I
discovered that I put the wrong dop in the jar to clean it. :O( So now you
can laugh at this where I just marked it up as a learning adventoure LOL.

Warm regards
Carl Mauritz


Subject: Machines, Selling Used Machines, & Internet
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:04:32 -0700
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Galarneau's" <gggemswcr@cox.net>

  There are three issues all rolled up into the one machine discussed on
this site.  First is the issue of trade mark and what it means to the
user.  To me if a trademarked machine is built by one manufacturer then
all machines built under that trademark should be repairable by that
manufacturer.  Think about this.  We all own faceters.  If the company
that built your trademarked machine is sold tomorrow and the new
manufacturer under the same trademark decides to change the machine and
no longer fix your old one, where would you be?  My opinion is that if a
machine is made by a trademarked company as long as that trademark is in
business the company with the trademark rights should be able to fix the
  The second issue is selling used equipment.  Read all the posts
considering this one machine.  The machines owner feels the machine is
good and the dealer that sold the machine is an honest dealer.  Three
experts feel the machine is a piece off junk and the dealer that sold it
a rip off artist.  What is the truth and who is the next person to be
disappointed with this machine?  Does "Buyer Beware" apply to people new
to the field buying there first equipment?  Or is it rip them off before
they wise up?
  The third issue is an equipment dealer representative stepping in the
middle when it is the companies responsibility.
  I see this as a large mess. If business is to be conducted start your
own website, do not use the free sites as your everyday marketing.
  I have no disagreement  with occasional sales by non-business people. 
I have great disagreement with any business person that uses the free
Internet sites for their own gain.

  Gerry Galarneau


Subject: Microscopes on sale.
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:29:34 -0400
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com (LapidaryArtsDigest)
From: "Jonathan L. Rolfe" <webmaster@gearloose.com>

At 05:42 PM 7/25/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>About two years ago there was a mention of a microscope intended, I think,
>for children. I don't remember the company, just that it was a specimen
>great for looking at stones and the price was right.  A friend wants one for
>his son.  Can someone help me out?

Why buy a toy when you can get a real binocular microscope that has both
substage and topstage lighting and two set of eyepieces, for $129?

Probably Chinese, but  optics works there, too.  And they DID invent


Subject: Scope
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:41:07 -0400
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "okgose" <okgose@qcnet.net>

Hi Jerilyn,  If it was an electronic scope that connected to a PC
then it was an Intel "Play" product. Although they have been
I still see them on e-bay. Bear in mind that they only work with Windows 98
and will NOT work with anything else.

Hi Thurmond,Mine works fine with Windows Me.Pretty impressive what you
can do with it.    Regards  Orville


Subject: Just Talking
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:05:04 -0500
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: <trueiii@tds.net>

Hello all,
I don't say much. Cuz i am just a Goldsmith / Stonesetter. I have a
machine, I just don't know were to start, and i have some other
Lapidary equpment. too. and i am going to sell it i hope to a co-worker
in another state. one should put his money were he can use it?
I am going to buy a TacII. Any way If for no reason i read this digst
it is for the funnys :). I find my self not having the time to chip in i
know i should and i will try from time to time.I have been setting
on the bench fo some 25 years now. and i love it! Last year i started
haveing some trouble with my left side going to sleep.a lot of my trouble
was how i set at the bench and hold my head and rest my arms.
Thought one day i was having a heart attack. just the way i had been
setting all those yeras.
Any way ya'll would not believe how much i have gleened from you .
THANKS. I can talk with customers in a more informed way.I have
some tooling that i would like to shove up someones #%%. but i did
not have a foum like this one. I have bought some real good rough
and cut stones too.and had some of it custom cut too. just wish i could
find some one to teach me.
The lady that is trying to get started in smithing, I have just one thing
to say about soldering. Respecet the Torch and you will not have any
trouble.Just rember this you have the control.
Thanks Thurmond... say Bob in Alt. Hello


Subject: Microscope
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:20:33 -0400
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: R W <wntrhill@somtel.com>

Hi -

I was probably the one who mentioned the Intel Play - QX3 Microscope -
made by Mattel -

It plugs into your computer and does a really neat job -

The cost was very reasonable - about $80 if I remember correctly -

Their web site was: http://www.intelplay.com

Hope this Helps -

Richard living in Maine without a/c :-)


Subject: Re: Where to find a 12 year old
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:14:41 -0400
To: LapidaryArtsDigest <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: Kreigh Tomaszewski <Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net>

Look for a 'middle aged' "Leap Year Baby".

Become a Foster Parent; any social services agency would love to send
you a twelve year old as they have problems finding homes for older kids
who need a placement.

Talk to the Pebble Pups at your local rock club; I assume you have a
local rock club, that you are an active member, and that your club
actively recruits kids to pass on knowledge to and insure our hobby does
not die.

Talk to the teachers at the local school you take your collection and/or
faceting machine to once or twice a year for a demo and classroom talk
on Rockhounding related topics as part of their science program.

You have probably enjoyed our shared hobby for many years and gotten a
lot of pleasure and knowledge out of it. If you don't know at least a
couple twelve year old kids I would suggest you are not doing enough to
pass on our hobby and your acquired skills to the next generations.

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now, but I hope you think about it.



Subject: Numb Index Finger
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:32:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: LAPIDARY ARTS & FACETERS DIGEST <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: Glenn Klein <glennklein@yahoo.com>

Hi All:
Paul has noticed that his right index finger tip gets numb.  I found that mine
did the same thing after faceting a long time.  In my case, I am sure it is
because I always hold the gemstone in the my right finger tips as I hold the
gem against the lap.  My Ultra Tec machine has a knurled end on a three
or four inch metal rod for holding onto the gem, dop, and chuck, but I do
not use that gadget.  I like to hold onto the gemstone to be sure that I
have just enough pressure and where I want it.  Holding the other gadget
would not let me realize how many more pounds per square inch I am
exerting onto the gem and lap.  Using the gadget makes it easy to exert
too much pressure until the gem comes loose, and the lap get gouged
with the metal dop-end.   Also, holding the gemstone itself will keep a
person from running off the edge of the lap.....which is easier to do with
the other gadget.  When I am getting bulk material out of the way fast,
I find that I use a lot more pressure with my
 right index finger tip....and that is where the soreness develops after too
many minutes of that.  Sometimes a lot of pressure is needed at certain
polishing times, and that too can cause a sore finger tip.  It is surprising,
when you realize just how much you are pressing down on the lap with
the right index finger tip (left, if you have one of those backward running
Another thing I have noticed is that my neck gets stiff after doing a lot
of faceting.  That I cause myself, because I have my seat low and my
Ultra Tec mast mounted up high.  I strain my neck into a Chiropractors
nightmare as I look over the polished facet under my very highly placed
light.  That is the only way I seem to be able to really inspect facets. 
Art Kavan thinks my way of inspecting facets is nuts.  He does it with
everything down much lower....and under his microscope.  To each his
own.  Whatever works for you....do it!
I have not noticed the wearing down of my finger tips on the lap.  I
choose to grind on the gemstone....not my fingers.  I do sometimes
sacrifice a dop, as I usually have the dop almost as large as the girdle
of the gemstone.  I like a lot of support so the gem does not come loose
and bounce around the room.
Glenn Klein
Lake Forest, CA  USA


Subject: Re: intel microscope
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:47:28 -0700
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com (LapidaryArtsDigest)
From: Tony <lightbender@thegemdoctor.com>

Hello Jerilyn,

An Ebay search for completed items shows 'intel microscope' sells
for under $50 usually 30 - 45.

Spiffy microscopes that would interest cutters are not so cheap
starting at a $1000 or so;

But this is my hands down favourite, It is under $200 and has
magnificent optics. I used it on a 1.2mm square sapphire I had
cut and not only were the poor meets glaringly obvious but the
stone wouldn't quite fit on the screen.
I would take his scope over a Gemolite MK IV but if you consider
the additional hardware (computer) needed to make it work it
really isn't cheaper than a 'real' scope. However if you have a



Subject: Re: Numb Index Finger
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:57:32 -0700
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com (LapidaryArtsDigest)
From: Tony <lightbender@thegemdoctor.com>

Hello Paul,

I hope I'm not being too simplistic here but there is little need
or advantage in applying anything other than a steadying
pressure on the stone, let the diamonds do the cutting. I try
and get as many finger tips on the stone as I can which reduces
the pressure on each of them, both hands for big rocks, haha.

Make a couple of passes and inspect your finger tip, if it is
going white you are pushing too hard. I have had a problem with
tiny triangular stones that are too small to grip and had only
room to push down on one of the points. I used electricians tape
around my finger tip and survived, laceration free.



Subject: Those lost stones
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 22:09:33 +0000
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: "Keith Torckler" <titotal@hotmail.com>

G'day everybody..

First a true story, A manufacturing jeweller I knew many years ago had his
workshop several floors up overlooking the main Street of Auckland City, NZ.
  He was about to set a largish diamond which was placed on the bench
between him and the open window when a large blowfly settled on the stone. 
Being a very good dart player he thought it a clever trick to pick up a
medium size sewing needle on his bench and flip it into the fly which
promptly flew away out the window clutching the diamond!  Weird but true..

Anyhow,  for the more usual lost stones flipped of the bench etc we would
put a clean bag in the vacuum cleaner and thoroughly vacuum any area where
the stone may have landed.  Empty the bag into a container and after
carefully sorting the fluff out of it and not found the stone put the
remainder through an ordinary cooking sieve.  It works.

We did lose a 1 carat+ diamond ring for several months on one occasion
(phew,talk about unhappy customer) It had been in a cabinet draw in a felt
covered metal snap shut ring box awaiting repairs.  We eventually found it
by pulling the whole cabinet away from the wall which exposed a fist sized
hole in the brick work at floor level.  Put hand in hole and found the ring
box with all the felt chewed off the outside obviously by a large rat with a
fancy for the glue holding the felt on, it had even managed to get the box
open but 'hallelujah' the ring was still in it..

Keith Torckler, Cornwallis, New Zealand.


Subject: Thurmond
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 16:34:22 -0700
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Galarneau's" <gggemswcr@cox.net>

  How about everyone slipping Thurmond a few dollars off your sales
generated from your free advertising on the list?  I give my advice and
knowledge with out advertising on a free list. I only have 30 years,
cutting, selling, buying, manufacturing, and giving of lapidary
knowledge and I still do not feel it is right to take advantage of a
free list.  How about others?

  Gerry Galarneau. 

Hi Gerry,  No! I don't do this for profit. It is a labor of love. Of course if anyone
has a piece of rough or two or aquarium gravel to give to kids as specimens I
would consider that. LOL. Seriously though this list is not commercial and not
for my personal gain of anything but information that I can use to better myself
in the topical areas covered by the list.


Subject: Bad Cutting Experience
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 15:43:14 +1000
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Arch & Jan Morrison" <archnjan@serv.net.au>

My first Emerald Cut (my fifth stone) went well. I cut all the long axis
facets first and used the short axis facets to align them with minor
recuts to long axis facets if necessary .....Going Great.  Did a
three-step Crown, cutting Break, Main, Table then Stars (follow
instructions - long axis facets, short axis facets, cut as rectangle,
leave corner facets till last). Easy cut, no problems, right?....WRONG!
Cutting the corners to the depth required on the Star facets bit into
the Main facet area.(We are disappointed but not beaten - so we need a
little bit of re-cutting). But, cutting the corners to the depth =
required on the Main facets bit into the Break facet area. (We are
dejected but not beaten - so we need a lot more re-cutting). And the
Break corners bit into the Girdle. (Do your own bracket comment). Fixing
the Girdle corners cut into the Pavilion and required the rest of the
Girdle facets to be recut  and repolished. (****). This became difficult
 because the dop stick was too large and hit the lap preventing proper
cutting of the long axis facets. (I may have to find a friend with a
What did I learn?
1. Leave enough room fot the Star facets where the Table intersects with
the Main facet.
2.Keep your dops to about 30 per cent of the stone's width.

Arch Morrison
Buderim, Queensland, Australia
(This Faceter has many stories - this is just one of them).


Subject: polishing laps
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:35:04 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time)
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Dennis Demerly" <ddraw@comcast.net>

Hello Thurmond,

I want to let you  all know that any help is appreciated. I have heard from
some people before my cable Internet went down. It is up and running again,
so all help is appreciated. I would to thank Jerry in Oregon for his help.
He has a great web site for supplies for the hobbyist. I would also, like to
thank Tyler for dropping by with some great information on the different
laps. I know that everyone has their way of polishing. I call my teacher,
call my friends in the Midwest Faceters Guild and read the Digest to get
help on my  on problems that I run into while faceting. Thanks for all the
help and keep help coming for us beginners.



Subject: Nova wheells and Flex Wheel by Eastwind
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:56:15 EDT
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: ACMEMINER2@aol.com

Hi, Gang

   I need some new diamond wheels and was wondering if anyone has used the
Flex Wheel by Eastwind?  They are a little cheaper and with my tight budget
saving a little means a lot!

   I don't post very often but love this group.Thanks!

  Thanks in advance!


Subject: assorted green tourmaline
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:26:46 -0700
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "b-daw" <b-daw@pacbell.net>

hello everybody,
i am going to run a special on faceting rough every month and  i wanted
to let everybody know that this month the special is assorted green
tourmaline.  2g and up is $12/g and 1.99g and below is $10/g.  get yours
while the sizes are big big big!
take care everybody,









PERSONALS: (General Lapidary and Faceting)






Lurking is fine, but participation is better for learning !
Post something from your experiences in gemcutting today!


Don't Take Chances

A man receives a telegram informing him about his
mother-in-law's death. It also enquires whether she
should be buried or burnt.

He replies, "Don't take chances. Burn the body
and bury the ashes."



It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid
than to open it and remove all doubt.

---Mark Twain---


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