Issue No. 172 - Wednesday July 23, 2003
Moderated by: Thurmond Moore III
Committed to carrying on the fine works of
Hale Sweeny and Jerry Dewbre
Hi all,

I think enough has been said concerning Joe and
Ultratec from both sides of the park. It was clearly
a communications issue so lets move on to other topics.

How about a few post concerning the worst cutting
experiences of your life and the lessons learned from

Index to Today's Digest

01  RE: UltraTec & Joe Rubin (FINAL COMMENTS)
02  RE: UltraTec & Joe Rubin (FINAL COMMENTS)
03  NEW: Copper vs brass vs red brass
04  RE: Halls faceting machines
05  NEW: Repetitive Motion injuries and faceting


Subject: UltraTec & Joe Rubin
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:44:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: LAPIDARY ARTS & FACETERS DIGEST <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: Glenn Klein <glennklein@yahoo.com>

Hi Everyone:
I will probably make some faceters a bit mad at me, but that is not the intention
of my remarks about the rough time Ultra Tec and Joe Rubin have been getting in
our posts here for the past couple of weeks.
I agree with Thurmond that when a Company does not stand behind their product
there is call for dis-interest in that Company.  If such a Company does nothing
about changing to operating in a better way, that Company will certainly suffer
the consequences without our airing a personal gripe over the air of the chat
But my big gripe is that an un-deserved gripe from someone can do a lot of harm
to a Company and worker at that Company......who are innocent of the claim.  It
is easy to find fault with almost any Company, if one wants to look far enough. 
Is it really necessary for one person to air their gripe, which can do much harm,
when they should have worked it out as best they could on their own with the
FROM A THOUSAND HAPPY CUSTOMERS.  It is unfair when a complaint is directed at
the wrong person.
Teresa was taken to the cleaners for the pile of make believe faceting machine
that she bought.  But she is over twenty-one, and makes her own decisions.  I am
sorry that she made a bad decision regarding her faceting machine.  On the other
hand, if she only paid a small sum for the machine, it would be worth spending
some additional money to make it into at least a beginners machine.  It could be
a machine good for someone to learn to facet with.  Then there would be faceters
happy to have the machine, especially if they have no intention of spending a lot
of money for equipment suitable for cutting at the Masters competition level. 
The majority of faceters probably are happy with lower cost and simpler machines.
 I would think that Teresa's machine is better than a jam-peg set-up.  Maybe not,
if not being used in the proper hands.......who knows? 
At any rate, it seems that most of us who have seen Teresa's machine agree that
it is not a true UltraTec machine.  It may not even be a true Stanley version
made before Ultra Tec.  The machine appears to be very many years old (I would
guess over thirty years).  So there cannot be an obligation for Joe Rubin or
anyone at UltraTec to stand behind the old bunch of metal parts.  It never should
have been insinuated that there was an obligation to correct anything.
I, for one, do not wish to see the faceters chat pages become a place for
faceters to air their gripes about manufacturers and rough dealers.  That can get
out of hand.  Pretty soon we could see happen the presentation of one faceters
views about another faceter.  If that happens, I am sure that there would be
someone who could find fault with most of us other faceters. 
I would rather see us become a group who speaks in a positive vein.  Find the
good things to say about other faceters, manufacturers, and dealers.  Otherwise,
do not talk about them if it can only be in negative ways.
As I said in my earlier post, a couple of weeks ago, I know Joe Rubin and Ultra
Tec well, since they are only a few miles away.  I also know Facetron and Betty
Jarvi (Norm when he was alive).  These are both quality Company's and quality
people.  I rate Facetron very highly, since I had to compete with other
competition faceters who were using those machines over the years.  Vern Johnson
with his Facetron spelt trouble for me over some 15 years.  He beat me for the
trophy more times than I beat him for it.  But we were always close friends.  I
met Joe Rubin soon after I already had bought my UltraTec machine.  Joe was
always after me to cut for competition in the early years of my faceting. 
Finally I entered at the Faceters Fair for the five stone Ultra Tec trophy.  I
won that, my first First Place trophy.  From that time I was hooked on
competition cutting.  If Joe Rubin had not kept after me to enter, I would not
have started cutting for competition.  I owe him that.  I know that
 Joe and UltraTec deserve the faceting worlds support.  There are not enough good
Company's and good people out there for us faceters to choose from.  I am glad
that we do have Joe and UT.
Glenn Klein
Lake Forest, CA USA


Subject: A Small Error
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:13:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: LAPIDARY ARTS & FACETERS DIGEST <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: Glenn Klein <glennklein@yahoo.com>

Hi All:
A few hours ago I made a post regarding Joe Rubin and Ultra Tec.  I should have
read over my post before hitting the SEND button, but some friends had just
arrived and I wanted to quickly sign off.
In my post I mentioned that the first time I won a trophy was after Joe Rubin's
pushing for me to enter competitions.  I stated in error that it was the Ultra
Tec sponsored five stone competition.  Well, Ultra Tec sponsored Case Of Stones
competitions, and that is what I had entered.  I am not sure if Ultra Tec still
sponsors case of stones trophies around the country as they once did.  It is very
difficult to get anyone to enter a whole case of stones these days.
Well, error corrected.  I guess that this proves once again that I did not mean
what I said in the first place.  Have you ever done that?
Glenn Klein
Lake Forest, CA USA


Subject: Copper vs brass vs red brass
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:34:58 -0500
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Wayne S. Barnett" <wayneb@ev1.net>

Does anyone out there have any comparisons on the performance of copper as a
lap material compared to brass and red brass.  Brass is 67% copper and 33%
zinc, red brass is 90% copper and 10% zinc.  I know that copper has been the
preferred material for the traditional laps but how does the other materials
compare to it.  For example steel is sometimes used and seems to do quite
well.  I do not know about recharging the steel laps but have had some
positive luck with "recharging" some finer bort bonded laps.  Perhaps I was
just grinding off the bad parts of the surface with the fresh bort.


Wayne in Houston


Hi Wayne, I bet Gearloose can answer this one.


Subject: Halls faceting machines
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 01:07:30 +0930
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "aurimas" <aurimas@chariot.net.au>

G'Day Thurmond

Sorry mate I can not help you with the proposed manufacturers name. Had
an E -Mail from Laurrie Hall in late May and all he said was that a chap
in the US has bought the manufacturing rights, no name given. There was
a bit of a hold-up with prices for castings, so in the meantime Laurrie
designed and built another machine that has no castings and this is his
best ever effort. It also is the result of about 36 years making
faceting machines. It probably this machine that will be made in the US
as well as the famous 2000.
The manufacturer is probably on one of the lists and biding his time foe
the grand announcement.



Subject: carpal tunnel syndrome?
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:49:32 -0400
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "dave timpany" <timpany@earthlink.net>

Am fairly new to faceting and after several months I'm finding problems with
my wrist.  It appears to be a lot like carpal tunnel.  Is this a problem
encountered with faceting and are there any suggestions to avoid such?
Appreciate any help offered.  Learning a lot from this site.  Thanks, Dave


Hi Dave, I don't know how much time you spend faceting but a more likely cause
could be the mouse on your computer (if you spend much time at your computer).
Improper mouse and arm placement can lead to problems from wrist to shoulders,
neck and back.










PERSONALS: (General Lapidary and Faceting)






Lurking is fine, but participation is better for learning !
Post something from your experiences in gemcutting today!


A first grade teacher seated her students in a circle.  She asked
them what they wanted to be when they grew up.  One by one, each child
got up and announced, "I'd like to be a nurse like my mother," or "I
want to be a banker like my father," or "I want to be a teacher like
you, Miss Smith."

     The last child to speak was the most shy and timid little boy in
the class. He said, "When I get big, I'm going to be a lion tamer in the
circus.  I'm going to face those animals with my whip and chair and make
them leap through hoops of fire and obey all of my commands."  Seeing
the disbelieving looks on the faces of his classmates that he could ever
act so boldly or bravely, he was quick to reassure them,  "Well, of
course, I'll have my mother with me."



"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how
improbable, must be the truth."

---Sherlock Holmes---


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