Issue No. 166 - Tuesday July 15, 2003
Moderated by: Thurmond Moore III
Committed to carrying on the fine works of
Hale Sweeny and Jerry Dewbre
Hi all,

I am sure from the past discussions that manufacturers
need to pay particular attention to customer support and
service. I don't care what you sell from Girl Scout cookies
to Faceting Machines, the customer is your bread and butter.
I think a strong message to the Equipment Manufacturers is

In the days before the Internet a displeased customer would
relate his bad experiences to a small local group. That has
drastically changed since the internet and public forums such
as this one have come into being. Anyone now has a global
audienceto which they can air their less than favorable experiences
to many.

Manufacturers BEWARE.  Unfairly treated  customers can now
impact your bottom line with ease. Change your focus to Customer
Support if you want to survive.


Index to Today's Digest

02  RE: Recut Ruby.
03  FS: Ultra Tec Faceting Machine
04  RE: Corian Laps
05  RE: Manufacturing facility
06  RE: Final comment UT/Stanley, Rubin and Me
07  NEW: Stabilizing Emeralds
08  NEW: Lapidary Equipment Manufacturers


Subject: SERVICE
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:34:44 EDT
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: Tymib@aol.com

I have written nought on this as i made my experience known long ago on "that
other list" :)   But today's post, sort of lecturing  Teresa, sort a got to

There are now an established numberr of us who have received irrelevant and
rude service from JR at UT.  I still have his insulting and pointless emails
for documentation.  Maybe at one time he was great, but now the ATTITUDE is very
poor - maybe he cannot be "held responsible", but that has nothing to do with
how matters are handled, or whether some effort to be helpful is shown.  I do
not have the impression that Teresa is whining or being unreasonable.  She is
biting the bullet, she is also registering her offense at poor, poor
treatment.  I do not believe for a moment that UT could have done nothing to help
but if that is so, they certainly could have been understanding and guiding
in a positive manner.  I said it before, and i say it again, we have a right to
demand the best, these machines are NOT $50 skillsaws and anyone producing
them is stating to the world that he is an expert, prepared to service a very
demanding group - if that is not the case he/she ought get out of Dodge.

bill b   ....   happy lappin Teresa!


Hi Bill, You have got that right. Anytime I have to plunk down several thousand
for a machine it better be a good one, both in quality and in SUPPORT. Faceting machines
are not worth what we pay for them as hobbiest. I think they are valued by what they
will produce not by actual cost plus a decent markup for the company.

How about it Gearloose? What does it cost to make a machine. How much markup
are the manufacturers of the machines actually making?

Although I own a Stanley Ultratec I would NEVER buy a new machine from them
since they have never had the courtesy to even answer my e-mails on numerous
occasions. Of course this is only MY opinion and may not hold true for anyone else.
Bad equipment can be modified, fixed or repaired. Bad manufacturer attitudes can
also be fixed but require much more effort.


Subject: Re:RE: Cut Ruby.
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:41:58 -0500
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Rich" <richtherm@bluemarble.net>

Hello Tony,

First, I have to correct a couple of things.  I re-weighed the removed
crown and it was actually 3.2 Cs (not 3.45 Cs), the client weighed the
stone and it came to 1.85 instead of 1.9.  It was my fault,  in my haste
to weigh things out I forgot to turn of the dad-gum fan I had blowing
over my faceting area......  Believe it or not, they do make a
difference. So I actually lost about .3 Cs more than I had previously
thought..... Bummer.

>Did you think about cobbing instead of sawing, and for how long? Do you

>have appraised prices for the before and after?

Nope and Nope.  Never (no way, uh uh) thought about cobbing the
original.  I stabilized the stone with two dops and epoxy (crown and
Pav) to ease the pressure of cutting (which took me quite a while,,,,
couldn't go slow enough).  As far as the finances,,,,,  well, you know
how that goes.  And about the appraisal, I will let the owner get the
certs/appraisals.  I will get copies, and with his permission I will let
you know the outcome, he's a good guy and I wouldn't want to upset him. 

Oh ya, by the way, Does anyone have a target dop they would like to get
rid of??????

Rich Ashcraft
Lyons, IN


Subject: For Sale --- Ultra Tec Faceting Machine
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:19:02 -0400
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: Kenda Wright <kendaw@worldnet.att.net>


I just wanted to let everyone know about the Ultra Tec I have for
sale on eBay, complete with dial, lamp, laps, polish and some facet

Let me know if you want to know more about it or see any
additional photos. I tried to write a thorough description on the
eBay advertisement. To find it, just search on key word "RH96".
The auction will end Saturday night.

John in Lexington KY


Subject: Corian laps
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:05:06 +0000
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: "Frank Romano" <romanfj@hotmail.com>

Hi, all,
Nobody's gotten back to me yet, so I figured I'd ask again.  My digest got
deleted and I'd really like the email of the listmember who's about to start
making Corian laps.  If anyone's still got it, I'd really apppreciate it. 
Frank Romano
"Gemcutters are Multifaceted Individuals"


Hi Frank, Here is a link to the archived copy on the gemcutters.org site.


Subject: Re: Issue No. 165 - Monday July 14, 2003
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:54:58 -0400
To: LapidaryArtsDigest <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: Kreigh Tomaszewski <Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net>


Many cemetary marker dealers have the equipment to 'rent time' as a
cutting and or polishing service. Most quarries have large diamond
and/or wire saws for cutting blocks to spec. A local building stone
dealer may also have the equipment and would rent time. Expect equipment
rental to also include the 'trained' operator (as with your local
contractor concrete cutting and breaking company that is another
source). Any of them should be able to get you a lead to an upline
supplier if they contract services out, but don't be suprised if they
want to quote and subcontract themselves instead of giving you a name.
Oh yea, don't forget your local rock shop (or club) may (have some
member who would) be interested and able to quote you a price.

Or do it the old fashioned way; with the back of a wood saw, a bag of
carbo grit -- and a lot of elbow grease, sweat, and time (though you
might be suprised at how fast it cuts if you _work_ at it).


LapidaryArtsDigest wrote:
> __________________________________________________________
> Message:03
> Subject: Manufacturing facility
> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 23:03:37 -0400
> To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
> From: "RICHARD P ROSENTHAL" <kenaii@earthlink.net>
> I am wondering if any members can help me with some information on large
> saws, I have decided to cut a few tons of my remaining stock of nephrite
> into tile and tabletop size pieces , I am looking for either a facility
> where I can rent time or information on large saws and polishing
> equipment. I imagine this type of equipment exists for the cutting of
> large blocks of marble and granite but  know nothing about who makes it
> or the exact technology employed. I have seen large wire saws  in Alaska
> for cutting nephrite boulders but it does not seem that they would be
> precise enough so that an inordinate amount of time would be needed in
> the polishing phase. I am located between Philadelphia and New York ,
> does anyone know  of a shop in this area that can do this type of work
> or someone who makes the equipment needed to do this. I can be reached
> off list at kenaii@earthlink.net   Thanks ever so much.


Subject: Final comment UT/Stanley, Rubin and Me
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:08:11 -0700
To: LapidaryArtsDigest <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: TA Masters <tam2819@cox.net>

I truly respect you and enjoy you very much. I do not want to enter into
a semantic joust.

Only I know how Joe Rubin treated me, and it was not nice to say the
least. I have never asked or wanted what I have to be brought up to
today's standards. Joe rubin suggested I bring the machine preferably to
Ventura for him to look at. Doug Turet could not figure out how to open
it to inset a dop. Pure and simple, that is all we wanted to know.

Jon Rolfe had already checked it all over, and save for inserting a dop
there was nothing else to do. I was not scammed by anyone in buying this
machine. I know and respect the dealer quite well. This machine has a
history in the primary owner, and one of these days I will have the
whole story. I will happily share it when I know who was the original owner.

I had no expectations other than simple courtesy from Joe Rubin, he
chose instead to be IMHO a total ___ ____, you may fill in the blanks.

I am speaking for myself only, others have contacted me off list with
stories of their own. I will say no more. I believe I have a very good
machine and were it not for Joe Rubin, I would keep it in an instant and
make it sing.



Subject: Stabilizing Emeralds
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:04:36 -0500
To: "LapidaryArtsDigest" <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "MR" <rugroden@attbi.com>

Since the subject of stabilizing Virgin Valley emeralds has come up
recently, I talked to one of the pioneers in the field, Dr. David
Lippman.  I don't recall which publication he was in a few years ago but
that's when I became interested in the process.  I have Virgin Valley
opals that he stabilized in my safe, cut, and stable.

If you are interested in having him work on your opals, here is his
email address:    j.lippmann@mail.utexas.edu



Subject: Lapidary Equipment Manufacturers
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:52:52 -0700
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Galarneau's" <gggemswcr@cox.net>

  I have been an equipment dealer as a part of another company which
handled used and new equipment.  We had a handshake partnership which
fell apart over the very issue being discussed.  The issue is
reliability of lapidary equipment manufacturers.  Every company's
equipment we sold we encountered problems and.we sold equipment for most
of the manufacturers. We were stocking dealers.  It got to the point
that my partner said that he would no longer test equipment before we
sold it.   At that point we had a very large disagreement and I no
longer sold equipment.
  In my opinion a new machine fresh out of the factory packaging should
work to 100% of the manufacturers stated specifications.  If it does not
the company should pay all costs involved, to include shipping and
packaging charges to fix the machine or give a 100% refund to included
shipping and packaging charges.  Lapidary equipment is a very individual
purchase of items not needed for daily life by 99% of the purchasers. 
An automobile is a necessity for 99% of purchasers so there is no
comparison in the way the two manufacturers operate.
  I expect any manufacturer to be able to fix any machine that was
manufactured under their trademark.  Joe Rubin bought the Ultratec
trademark, therefore he should be able to fix any machine made with the
Ultratec trademark.  The machines owner should expect to pay more to fix
the machine if it has been remodeled by someone else or out of current
production.  The customer should only expect to have the machine fixed
to the specifications of the machine at the time of manufacture.  That
is fair.  For a manufacturer to refuse to fix a machine made under their
trademark is unacceptable.  I will not buy from these manufacturers.
  Another issue is the selling off of machines that are broken to buyers
that are not aware that the machine is broken and of the problems with
getting the machine repaired.  The example with the current machine to
me is deplorable.  This machine is obviously not useable to cut an
acceptable stone.  If it is sold "as is" without disclosure of the
problems another facetor with high hopes and dreams is very quickly led
into what I call the "Den of Thief's Mentality"  You know - I bought the
machine in good faith and was lied to so now it is Ok for me to sell it
to another and not tell them everything I now know.  This is the way the
Lapidary Hobby operates.  I see it in equipment and in rough.
  To all that have broken equipment that can not be fixed at a
reasonable price - do not sell the equipment without disclosing
everything you know about the equipment.  Save another hobbyist from the
grief you have experienced.

  Gerry Galarneau









PERSONALS: (General Lapidary and Faceting)






Lurking is fine, but participation is better for learning !
Post something from your experiences in gemcutting today!


Subject: Don't Ask.
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:24:32 -0700
From: Galand and Tom Nuchols <nucholsg@1Starnet.com>
To: owner-lapidary@caprock-spur.com
During a trial in a small town, the prosecuting attorney
called his first witness to the stand - a grandmotherly,
elderly woman. He approached her and asked, "Mrs. Jones,
do you know me?"

She responded, "Why, yes I do know you, Mr. Williams. I've
known you since you were a young boy, and frankly, you've
been a big disappointment to me. You lie, you cheat on
your wife, you manipulate people and talk about them behind
their backs. You think you're a big shot when you haven't
the brains to realize you never will amount to anything
more than a two-bit paper pusher. Yes, I know you."

The lawyer was stunned. Not knowing what else to do, he
pointed across the room and asked, "Mrs. Jones, do you
know the defense attorney?"

She again replied, "Why yes, I do. I've known Mr. Bradley
since he was a youngster, too. He's lazy, bigoted, and he
has a drinking problem. He can't build a normal relationship
with anyone and his law practice is one of the worst in
the entire state. Not to mention he cheated on his wife
with three different women. Yes, I know him."

The defense attorney almost died!

At this point, the judge brought the courtroom to silence,
called both counselors to the bench, and in a very quiet
voice, said, "If either of you asks her if she knows me,
you'll be jailed for contempt.



The difference between fiction and reality?
Fiction has to make sense.
---Tom Clancy---


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Tempie Francis, Attorney at Law / Legal Advisor


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