Issue No. 165 - Monday July 14, 2003
Moderated by: Thurmond Moore III
Committed to carrying on the fine works of
Hale Sweeny and Jerry Dewbre
Hi all,

Good list today. Keep posting.


Index to Today's Digest

01  NEW: UT Chuck wrench
02  RE: Recut Ruby.
03  NEW: Manufacturing facility
04  RE: Corian Laps
05  RE: Customer Service....
06  RE: Stanley/Ultratec
07  BIO: Bob Mestdagh
08  RE: Corain Laps


Subject: UT Chuck wrench
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:26:44 -0700
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: Galand and Tom Nuchols <nucholsg@1Starnet.com>

I hace the chuck tool within 3 ft. of me at this time and it has been
there since Ventura waiting for you address.
Tom Nuchols


Subject: Re: Recut Ruby.
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:39:05 -0700
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com (LapidaryArtsDigest)
From: Tony <lightbender@thegemdoctor.com>

Hello Rich,

> I have included before and after pics.  Just had to share with
> somebody.

And I'm sure I'm not the only one, glad that you did. Good stuff
Rich, congratulations, I hope you were also well financially
rewarded for being so clever. I'm impressed with your numbers
and I expect that to be an eye opener for other cutters. Did you
think about cobbing instead of sawing, and for how long? Do you
have appraised prices for the before and after?

Well done,


Subject: Manufacturing facility
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 23:03:37 -0400
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "RICHARD P ROSENTHAL" <kenaii@earthlink.net>

I am wondering if any members can help me with some information on large
saws, I have decided to cut a few tons of my remaining stock of nephrite
into tile and tabletop size pieces , I am looking for either a facility
where I can rent time or information on large saws and polishing
equipment. I imagine this type of equipment exists for the cutting of
large blocks of marble and granite but  know nothing about who makes it
or the exact technology employed. I have seen large wire saws  in Alaska
for cutting nephrite boulders but it does not seem that they would be
precise enough so that an inordinate amount of time would be needed in
the polishing phase. I am located between Philadelphia and New York ,
does anyone know  of a shop in this area that can do this type of work
or someone who makes the equipment needed to do this. I can be reached
off list at kenaii@earthlink.net  Thanks ever so much.


Subject: Corain Laps
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:19:14 -0500
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Wayne S. Barnett" <wayneb@ev1.net>

What variety of corian are we talking about for the laps?  There are 4
different types of corian listed on one of the sites that I visited.  I am
guessing that it is the solid surface variety.  How thick are these laps
going to be?  Standard diameters are 6 inches and 8 inches.




Subject: Customer Service....
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:48:38 -0500
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Rich" <richtherm@bluemarble.net>

Hello all,

I can't get into too much of a discussion about customer service of
other companies, but I can vouch for the help Bob Livingston has given
me on my MDR.  When I bought the machine I had been cutting on an
American Facetor for 3+ years.  Changing over to the mast style almost
made me quit cutting, it was like learning to cut all over again, And
being technical I was almost too hard headed to ask anyone for help.

I spent countless hours on the phone with MDR as he walked me through
problems and explained (in depth) the technical differences between the
two types of machines.  As far as fixing failed parts, no questions, no
problems, they were in the mail the next day (of course this was only

Let's face it, this list and the help of everyone is what makes faceting
enjoyable for me.  I do however wish I had a machine shop so I could
build Mr. Rolfe's machine.  You can't imagine how I would love to cut on
one of those.

Normal Disclaimer:  Just my opinion and experience, I also don't have
any experience with other manufacturers of faceting machines so I can't

Rich Ashcraft
Lyons, IN


Subject: Stanley/Ultratec
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:40:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: LAPIDARY ARTS & FACETERS DIGEST <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: Glenn Klein <glennklein@yahoo.com>
Hi Teresa, Wayne, Douglas, AC Hughes, Jonathan, Richard, Gerry, Tom, and others
who are interested in Teresa's "what is it faceting machine".
Teresa, is this the machine that you showed me at the Faceters Symposium 2003 at
Ventura?  Of course I know that it is.  I believe that I gave you my impression
of the machine as being a very early Stanley model, and maybe was a proto-type
that Stanley himself had been toying with in the early years.........like maybe
thirty years ago or earlier.  Anyway, this was all before Joe Rubin's time of
buying Stanley out and Joe's making the machine once he took over the company. 
Joe Rubin certainly cannot be held responsible for the machine that you showed
me, Teresa.  It is my feeling that Joe was just offering to give you his opinion
on the machine if you brought it to his factory location or to the Faceters
Symposium at Ventura.  I give him credit for giving you his views about your
machine.  Joe, quite reasonably could not be expected to want to go through your
machine to bring it up to the year 2003 standards.
My UltraTec faceting machine is a Stanley model, as I told you at Ventura.  It is
one of the last ones produced in the 1970's by Stanley.  My machine has some of
the components that your ancient machine also had.  My machine also has most of
the components as they are in the 2003 machines.  I do have the old chuck type,
and do not intend to every change it.....I like my machine the way it is, and it
looks like new because I clean it thoroughly after each use. 
I do not like to see written or hear remarks that run Joe Rubin down.  I think he
is a man that will bend over backward to help any and all UltraTec owners to get
the best use out of their individual machine.  Of course UltraTec is only about
ten miles from my home, and Facetron is just another three miles or so.  Both of
these company's want faceters to be happy with their products, and do much to
help the machine owners and also faceters at large.  Both companies are similar
in that the original people are not active or as active as they were years ago. 
Now there are other family members or employees making the decisions.  As I often
I am sure that everyone has heard that when one is in business, YOU CAN NEVER
PLEASE EVERYONE, NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY.  That is what I found out when I
operated my Draperies and Interiors business for my last thirty working years.
My UltraTec machine is serial number R 997, and as I have mentioned before, I
bought it from Mr. Grieger because he recommended the machine very highly at his
store.....back in the 1970's.  I paid about $275 for the new machine, and was
scared to use it for the first six months.  I went to the Stanley factory, which
was also in Santa Ana as is the UltraTec factory now, but at a different location
in Santa Ana.  I met Mr. Stanley briefly at his factory.  But I really got to
know the UltraTec firm by meeting Joe Rubin and his partner at the time.  The
partner's name escapes me in my old age at this time.......even though the
partner's ex-wife was an employee in my retail shop in Tustin in later years.  
Isn't it crazy how the mind remembers useless facts, and forgets things of
importance.  Oh Well, I have been doing that since I was in my twenties.
The reason I am mentioning my machine is because it looks so much like Teresa's
ancient machine.  I really think it is worthy of being in the Hall Of Fame For Faceting
Machines if it is truly authentic.  But when the facts are know, I think it will turn out
to be just someone's getting a bunch of parts and crudely putting them together. 
This is not to say that the machine would not be capable of turning out some fair
looking stones with the guidance of a good faceters hands.
Teresa, in my humble opinion, the machine that you showed me at Ventura is not an
authentic UltraTec machine.  Joe Rubin cannot be expected to stand behind
something that is obviously not one of his products.  Joe has been trying to
leave the company to his Son and others to operate, although Joe still likes to
be part of the action.......and deservedly so.  All of the UltraTec people want
you to be happy with one of THEIR products, just as the people at Facetron want
with THEIR products.  Do not jump to the quick decision that the Companies are
bad when they do not want to extend much help in repairing something that is
beyond their control.  You cannot expect to take your Model A Ford to the local
Ford dealer and have your car brought up to today's standards. 
Joe said bring the machine for him to look at.  When he saw what it was, I do not
blame him for saying that he would not touch this one.  Why should he try to
bring such a bunch of parts up to 2003 standards?  He was trying to help, and
would have done more if it was the sensible thing to do.  He could see that the
machine would require so much to be done that it would make more sense in not
starting.  After all, the parts of today cannot be made to fit the really old
machine........at least I would think that is the case.
Teresa, this is like buying faceting rough sight unseen.  You may get what turns
out to be a good deal or you may find that most of the rough was not worth the
price.  I have bought rough after looking it over well at a Show, only to find
out that the rough had the characteristic of developing cracks as it was worked
on it.  The dealer either did or did not know the rough was no good.......it was
just sold as buyer beware stuff.  Your machine might have been mis-represented to
you when you bought it, but the fact is that you bought it.  Do not make your
decision the current manufacturers job to satisfy you.  It hurts I know, but bite
the bullet........you should not have bought the pile of junk unless it was at a
very reasonable price......making it possible for you to spend some more money on
it to bring it up to usable quality.  It will never be a competition cutters
joice for cutting.
I am mechanically inclined, but in no way am I a machinist.  But after looking at
Teresa's machine, I feel sure I am correct in saying that too much would have to
be done to make use of the few good parts on her machine.  Bite the bullet.  If
the machine is junk, face it.  If it is an early proto-type machine.......it has
value if there ever is a group that has a faceting museum complete with the
records of the early faceters and their equipment. 
Sorry for going on so long, but I do not think that there is any manufacturer out
there who can say that all customers were satisfied with the product.  There are
always things happening that cannot be helped or anticipated.......which leave an
unhappy customer.  I have always bought Ford cars through my life.  But in 1994 I
bought a Ford Escort which worked fine until one day it blew a valve
seat.....which ended up sending little bits of metal throughout the engine,
totaling it.  This at just 24,000 miles from new.  Since the warranty period had
expired, Ford would not do anything for me, not even a "sorry this happened"
remark.  I had to buy a re-built engine, which was as costly as the blue book
value of the car at the time.  My wife drives the car now, but I look at that car
as being a true lemon from the factory.  Ford SHOULD have done something for me,
a faithful Ford customer of some seven new cars.  I know, they did not force me
to buy the car in the beginning, but I bought
 it and am now stuck with it.  The same goes for you Teressa.  You are stuck with
that faceting machine relic, and Joe Rubin or UltraTec cannot be held responsible
for it.
The truth hurts, and Teressa I am sorry that you are stuck with the bad results.
Glenn Klein
Lake Forest, CA USA


Subject: BIO Bob Mestdagh
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:38:03 -0500
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Bob Mestdagh" <bob.mestdagh@plasticrecycling.us>

Bob here I'm brand new to faceting, been thinking I'd like to try it for
awhile now.
I have a Facetron machine, but haven't cut anything yet.
I signed up to get some advice from more experienced faceters.
I will post some questions soon.

Thanks Bob


Subject: Re: Corian laps
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:16:13 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Mark Bachert" <Bach2775@RCN.com>

<<<<Tried that, cabinet corian isn't controlled density even after truing on
a lathe they wobble like crazy.>>>

I am unsure what you mean by this. I have never heard of any other kind of
Corian. All material comes in 145" lengths and widths of 30" and 36" each
You can also get half sheets and strips. To my understanding what you may be
talking about is the material with specks like beach, tarragon and aurora
that have a primary color and then other secondary colors within it to give
it that natural rock look. Those secondary colors are placed by a machine in
an order that makes those sheets resemble real rock not placed there for us
to make Corian laps from. I am sure they (the colors) are of different
densities and not very well balanced due to the random placement of those
specks. If this is what you used in your lap (Speckled material) then I
could easily understand why you had such a wobble problem. Try using a solid
color Corian such as Glacier white, pearl Grey, Bone or Bisque which would
be much more fitted to this application.

I hope I helped                                           









PERSONALS: (General Lapidary and Faceting)






Lurking is fine, but participation is better for learning !
Post something from your experiences in gemcutting today!


Subject: Funny
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:08:07 -0300
To: LapidaryArtsDigest <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: Robert <robertplowejr@uol.com.br>


A Dam Funny Story

This is an actual letter sent to a man named Ryan DeVries by the
Michigan Department of Environmental Quality, State of Michigan.
Wait till you read this guy's response - but read the State's letter
before you get to the response letter.

SUBJECT: DEQ File No.97-59-0023; T11N; R10W, Sec. 20; Montcalm County

Dear Mr. DeVries:

It has come to the attention of the Department of Environmental
Quality that there has been recent unauthorized activity on the above
referenced parcel of property. You have been certified as the legal
landowner and/or contractor who did the following unauthorized activity:
Construction and maintenance of two wood debris dams across the
outlet stream of Spring Pond. A permit must be issued prior to the start
of this type of activity. A review of the Department's files shows that
no permits have been issued.

Therefore, the Department has determined that this activity is in
violation of Part 301, Inland Lakes and Streams, of the Natural
Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the Public Acts of
1994, being sections 324.30101 to 324.30113 of the Michigan Compiled
Laws, annotated.

The Department has been informed that one or both of the dams
partially failed during a recent rain event, causing debris and flooding
at downstream locations. We find that dams of this nature are inherently
hazardous and cannot be permitted. The Department therefore orders you
to cease and desist all activities at this location, and to restore
the stream to a free-flow condition by removing all wood and brush
forming the dams from the stream channel. All restoration work shall be
completed no later than January 31, 2002.

Please notify this office when the restoration has been completed so
that a follow-up site inspection may be scheduled by our staff.

Failure to comply with this request or any further unauthorized activity
on the site may result in this case being referred for elevated
enforcement action.

We anticipate and would appreciate your full cooperation in this matter.

Please feel free to contact me at this office if you have any questions.

Sincerely, David L. Price
District Representative Land and Water Management Division

This is the actual response sent back:

Dear Mr. Price,
Re: DEQ File No. 97-59-0023; T11N; R10W, Sec. 20; Montcalm County.

Your certified letter dated 12/17/97 has been handed to me to
respond to. I am the legal landowner but not the Contractor at
2088 Dagget, Pierson, Michigan.

A couple of beavers are in the (State unauthorized) process of
constructing and maintaining two wood "debris" dams across the outlet
stream of my Spring Pond. While I did not pay for, authorize, nor
supervise their dam project, I think they would be highly offended that
you call their skillful use of natures building materials "debris."

I would like to challenge your department to attempt to emulate their
dam project any time and/or any place you choose. I believe I can safely
state there is no way you could ever match their dam skills, their dam
resourcefulness, their dam ingenuity, their dam persistence, their dam
determination and/or their dam work ethic.

As to your request, I do not think the beavers are aware that
they must first fill out a dam permit prior to the start of this type of
dam activity.

My first dam question to you is: (1) Are you trying to discriminate
against my Spring Pond Beavers or (2) do you require all beavers
throughout this State to conform to said dam request?

If you are not discriminating against these particular beavers, through
the Freedom of Information Act, I request completed copies of all those
other applicable beaver dam permits that have been issued. Perhaps we
will see if there really is a dam violation of Part 301, Inland Lakes
and Streams, of the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act,
Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.30101 to
324.30113 of the Michigan Compiled Laws, annotated.

I have several concerns. My first concern is - aren't the
beavers entitled to legal representation? The Spring Pond Beavers are
financially destitute and are unable to pay for said representation - so
the State will have to provide them with a dam lawyer.

The Department's dam concern that either one or both of the dams failed
during a recent rain event causing flooding is proof that this is a
natural occurrence, which the Department is required to protect. In
other words, we should leave the Spring Pond Beavers alone rather than
harassing them and calling their dam names.

If you want the stream "restored" to a dam free-flow condition please
contact the beavers - but if you are going to arrest them, they
obviously did not pay any attention to your dam letter - they being
unable to read English.

In my humble opinion, the Spring Pond Beavers have a right to
build their unauthorized dams as long as the sky is blue, the grass is
green and water flows downstream. They have more dam rights than I do to
live and enjoy Spring Pond. If the Department of Natural Resources and
Environmental Protection lives up to its name, it should protect the
natural resources (Beavers) and the environment (Beavers' Dams).

So, as far as the beavers and I are concerned, this dam case can be
referred for more elevated enforcement action right now. Why wait
until 1/31/2002? The Spring Pond Beavers may be under the dam ice then
and there will be no way for you or your dam staff to contact/harass
them then.

In conclusion, I would like to bring to your attention to a real
environmental quality (health) problem in the area. It is the bears!

Bears are actually defecating in our woods. I definitely believe you
should be persecuting the defecating bears and leave the beavers alone.
If you are going to investigate the beaver dam, watch your step! (The
bears are not careful where they dump!)

Being unable to comply with your dam request, and being unable to
contact you on your dam answering machine, I am sending this
response to your dam office.



Subject: [Fwd: Learnt in TEXAS]
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:23:35 -0500
To: IFA Faceter's Digest <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: Downey <alckytxn@swbell.net>

 Armadillos sleep in the middle of the road with all four feet in the air.

There are 5,000 types of snakes and 4,998 live in Texas.

There are 10,000 types of spiders. All 10,000 live in Texas, plus a few
no one has ever seen before.

Raccoons will test your melon crop and let you know when they are ripe. (Coyotes also
will perform this service for you) Thurmond

If it grows, it will stick you. If it crawls, it will bite you! Nothing
will kill a mesquite tree.

There are valid reasons some people put razor wire around their house.

A tractor is NOT an all terrain vehicle. They do get stuck.

The wind blows at 90 mph from Oct 2 till June 25, then it stops totally
until Oct 2.

Onced and twiced are words.  Coldbeer is one word.

People actually grow and eat okra. Green grass DOES burn.

When you live in the country you don't have to buy a dog. City people
drop them off at your front gate in the middle of the night. (Same goes
for Cats) Thurmond

The sound of coyotes howling at night only sounds good for the first few

When a buzzard sits on the fence and stares at you, it's time to see a

Fix-in-to is one word. A TANK is a dirt hole that holds water for
irrigation, watering the cows,or swimming. (Its also an item from
the Army surplus store that is usefull for running down mesquite trees)

There ain't no such thing as"lunch". There is only dinner and then
there's supper.

"Sweetened ice tea" is appropriate for all meals and you start drinking
it when you are two.

Backwards and forwards means I know everything about you.

"Jeet?" is actually a phrase meaning, "did you eat?"(Properly written
it is J'eet) Thurmond

You don't have to wear a watch because it doesn't matter what time it is.

You work until you're done or it's too dark to see.

You Know you are from Texas if: 1. You measure distance in minutes.

2. You've ever had to switch for "heat" to "A/C" in the same day. (Several
times a day in fact) Thurmond

3. Stores don't have bags, they have sacks.

4. You see a car with the engine running in the Wal-Mart parking lot
with no one in it, no mater what time of the year.

5. You use "fix" as a verb. Example: I am fixin' to go to the store.
(Note: In the portion above, "fix-in-to" is one word....)

6. All the festivals across the state are named after a fruit or a

7. You install security lights on your house and garage and leave both

8. You carry jumper cables for your own car.

9. You know what "cow tipping" and "snipe hunting" are.

l0. You only have four spices in your kitchen: Salt, Pepper, Catsup, and

11. You think everyone from north of Dallas has an accent. (and East
of Spur) Thurmond

12. You think sexy underwear is a tee shirt and boxer shorts.

13. The local papers cover national and international news on one page
but require six pages to cover Friday night high school football. (National and International
News in a rural Texas Paper ???? Not in ours!) Thurmond

14. You think that the first day of deer season is a national holiday. (Also Dove, Quail
and Turkey Seasons) Thurmond

15. You know which leaves make good toilet paper. (Leaves? Ever see a mesquite leaf?)

16. You find 100 degrees a "tad" warm

17. You know all four seasons: Almost summer, summer, still summer and
Deer Season. (Unfortunately in my part of Texas Deer season is over before
summer weather is) Thurmond

18. You know whether another Texan is from East, West, North, or
SouthTexas as soon as he opens his mouth.

19 Going to Wal-Mart is a favorite past-time known as "goin Wal-Martin"
or"off to Wally-world".

20. You describe the first cool snap (below 70 degrees) as good chili

21. A carbonated soft drink isn't a soda, cola, or pop...It's a Coke
regardless of brand of flavor.


is produced by Thurmond Moore III

Tempie Francis, Attorney at Law / Legal Advisor


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