Issue No. 160 - Monday July 7, 2003
Moderated by: Thurmond Moore III
Committed to carrying on the fine works of
Hale Sweeny and Jerry Dewbre
Hi all, Great list today. Keep up the post.


Index to Today's Digest

01  RE: Outdoor Faceting
02  RE: DataVue2 & XP
03  RE: DataVue2 & XP
04  RE: Outdoor Faceting
05  RE: Stanley/ultratec
06  NEW: Disclosure
07  NEW: Replacing Bearings on A Garves MK I


Subject: using batteries and an inverter
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 15:38:23 -0600
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Ernie Hawes" <ehawes7@comcast.net>

Thurmond suggested using a couple of car batteries and a 1200 watt
inverter to facet where there is no available AC line supply.  Good
suggestion, but marine batteries, the rechargeable deep cycle kind used
in RV's and boats, will work better and longer.  Of course, you will
also need a recharger for the batteries.  Make sure you use heavy 8
gauge or heavier wires to connect the batteries together.

Ernie Hawes
Albuquerque, NM USA


Subject: DataVue2 & XP
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:32:04 -0400
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "J Wagstaff" <wagstajo@kos.net>

Re: Bob Barnwell wrote "I installed a downloaded DataVue zip file on XP
and received an ODBC=20

John Franke used to have a downloadable fix for the ODBC error but I
don't see it on his site now.  I have Datavue2 working on XP with NO
problems.  I can even shell to Gemcad or open with Gemcadwin.  No
problems NOW!!  When I first downloaded from John's site I could not
even get it to run and then the ODBC error.  With assisstance from
Robert Strickland it now works the way it is supposed to.



Subject: Data vue
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 16:30:06 -0700
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Len Britton" <elceb@olympus.net>

I am using windows 98. Can not get data vue diagrams to go to latest
verson of gem Cad. Any answers.

Len Britton


Subject: outdoor faceting .......sounds like fun
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:11:52 -0400
To: "LapidaryArtsDigest" <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Peter In Maine" <kulaczp@pivot.net>

Home Depot sells an inverter for   $ 79.00 dollars and is 750 watt....
All you need is a fully charged 12 volt car battery and off you go to the
new world of misquito faceting.  The inverter will power tools and tv etc.
It converts 12 vdc to 110 vac and is good enough for your needs... I
purchased a 1200 watt generator for my hammer rock drills and it powers up 2
running 1 inch drills.....but it cost $ 229.00......It also will work fine
for running 12 faceting machines at once....
Battery charge will depend on motor draw.  A motor just running does not
pull full current, it pulls it when loaded up..... I would purchase a deep
cycle marine battery and the inverter......much quieter....

Peter........Maine is hot.........


Subject: Stanley/ultratec
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 21:41:10 -0700
To: LapidaryArtsDigest <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: TA Masters <tam2819@cox.net>

As both you and Tom Nuchols may remember, I brought my Stanley/ut
faceting head to Ventura specifically to show Joe rubin as Doug Turet
had called him about it and Joe denied it had anything to do with ut.

When I approached joe rubin with it, he loudly stated, "I told Doug no
and I tell you  NO, I will not touch this.

Before anyone else in innocence contacts ut, best they be aware of the
"customer" service offered by rubin.

When I first bought this machine I was so happy and proud to be a ut
owner. Now I can't sell it off fast enough.

Caveat emptor


Subject: Disclosure
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:15:36 -0700
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Galarneau's" <gggemswcr@cox.net>

  I have many questions regarding how we as gem producers are adhering
to the Federal Trade Commissions (FTC) guidelines on disclosure. 
Please,  give feedback to the group on how you accomplish the goals of
the FTC when you sell a stone.  Do you use AGTA guidelines?  Do you
identify the enhancement yourself? Do you write down the enhancement on
the sales slip?
  As a side note I went to several websites selling rough and saw that
none of them are practicing disclosure.  The FTC requires full
disclosure at all points of the sale path.  That includes the sale of
rough.  What are your ideas, practices, and experiences?

  Gerry Galarneau


Subject: Replacing Bearings on A Garves MK I
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 17:42:46 -0400
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com (LapidaryArtsDigest)
From: sinico@nbnet.nb.ca (H.Durstling)

Hi everyone,

By the sounds of things it's about time to replace the main bearings (the
ones the master lap turns in) on my ancient Graves MK I (serial no. H4210).

A long long time ago back in the days when Jerry Dewbre had the list
someone posted instructions how to do this, how to get the lap back level
afterward, etc.

If anyone still has these instructions I'd be grateful for a copy. Or if
you know how to do it amd can explain it - maybe other list members will
want to do the same thing.

Cheers & thanks
Hans Durstling
Moncton, Canada


Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:42:05 +1000
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Arch & Jan Morrison" <archnjan@serv.net.au>

Late response. Been away. Catching up on backlog.
Dolly wrote
< The pavilion seems to be matching up fine. Each facet comes to one
point at the top. No chisel points. And to the eye, (using a loupe) they
seem to be approximately the same size, or width.>

If relying on the eye, it is possible to bring the facets to a point BUT
for the point not to be on the central axis of the stone. Should this
happen, it will give you the sort of problem which you describe at the
girdle. (It is also the sort of problem you will get with a bent dop).
I shall copy below a post I made to the Digest about 2 years ago. You
and other newbies may find it helpful in cutting that first SRB. Of
great importance in setting up the axis of the stone is the bit about
cutting the first four facets to the same depth i.e. the bit which says
<with the lap stopped, swing the quill across the lap - all facets
should touch the lap in the same way>. If you cut the pavilion as given
below and still can't get the girdle to come in properly, then you
probably have the alignment or other mechanical problems which have been
mentioned -but exhaust all cutting solutions first.

Re <Am I right in thinking the cheater is essentially a micro adjustment
to the Index gear?>

Re<reset the cheater waay off to the right repeat 2 and 3 any difference
between the two stones?>
Not really. The pyramid is rotated around the axis but is still a
right-angled pyramid.

Subject: Cutting a Standard Round Brilliant
Recent questions from new faceters and the number looking for a Faceting
Group highlight the problem of not knowing where to start and how to do
it anyway. I recognise the problem well - being a self-taught faceter of only
three years standing. So, in the interest of saving them some time and
giving a starting point, here (in the form of cutting instructions for a
SRB) are some of the tips and techniques I've picked up as the result of
three years of reading Vargas, Soukup etc. and lots of lurking on the
internet. None of it is original and, no doubt, some of the experts will
see their previously posted tip below. If so, thanks, I found it worked for

Final Preforming:
I usually round the Girdle before I cut any facets. You need to take off the
worst of the irregularities anyway. (If you want to make a perfect cylinder
in the process then it helps to hang a weight on the quill while you rotate
the quill - this ensures even pressure). No matter how large the diameter of
the cylinder, however, the final diameter of your stone may have to reflect
the depth of the material.(In a cut SRB , the height of the stone will
always be about 0.7of the Girdle diameter - so your Girdle can never be more
than 1.4 times the depth of your rough). I then set the protractor at 3
degrees more than the Pavilion Main angle for the stone and rough-cut the
stone to a point with the quill in free-rotate mode.

Cutting the Pavilion:
Many books and cutting diagrams say to cut the Main Facets first. However,
this means you have to eyeball in the point at the Girdle where the Break
Facets touch each other and also eyeball their point to the same depth on
the Mains. I find that it is easier and more accurate to cut the Breaks
first.(I shall refer to index numbers for a 96 index but the principles
apply to any other index.)

Put on your Cutting Lap (say 600 Grit) and set your protractor at the Break
Facet angle. Cut two pairs of opposite Breaks (3 & 51, 27 & 75). Cut to a
point, cutting all facets to the same depth (with the lap stopped, swing the
quill across the lap - all facets should touch the lap in the same way). If
correct, there should be a defined cross (+) at the culet point. If the
stone is big then partially cut the four intermediate breaks (15 & 63, 39 &
87) to save time and wear and tear on your fine lap, BUT don't cut them too
close to the point (+) or they will interfere with the first fine cutting
step .

Change to your Fine Cutting Lap (say 1200 Grit). Fine cut 3, 51, 27 and 75
equally and to a point as before. Cut 15, 63, 39 and 87carefully to meet at
the point established by the first four facets. Now cut the remaining eight
Break facets to also touch the point. Inspect with a 10 times loupe.

Girdle ;
On 90 degrees with fine lap and starting at index 3 cut on the break
settings to meet the Pavilion Break lines progressively around the stone and
checking that the Girdle seems to be staying level.( In deciding how much to
cut the first of these Girdle Facets, you need to have one-third of the
stone height available to cut the Crown - the Crown height is about half the
Pavilion depth).

Pavilion Mains:
Set the protractor to the Pavilion Main angle and cut each of the Mains in
order till the lower point just (accurately) touches the Girdle.(This will
bring the Mains to an accurate point at the culet - check it with the 10
times loupe -and importantly will have all the Breaks extending the same
distance to the Culet point).

Polish the Pavilion moving from the Culet towards the Girdle (ie
Mains,Breaks,Girdle). There is a good reason for doing the smallest-angle
facets first which I won't go into here.[Helpfull Hint: When polishing with
powder which tends to dry out, set up a slow water drip on the outside edge
of your lap and periodically move into the wet area to carry some moisture
back into the polishing powder].

When polishing the Girdle do so at 89.5 degrees and only polish a bit more
than you need for the depth of Girdle you wish to leave on the stone. (Saves
wear and tear on your lap and the other reason shows up later).

Cutting the Crown:
To optimize the brilliance we are told that we should "stack" the Crown
facets accurately above the corresponding Pavilion facets after Transfer -
but how? Try this method.
With your polishing lap still on the machine and a Protractor angle of 89.5
degrees, set up as close as you can manually to make Girdle facet 3 touch
evenly on the lap.(If you have a slotted or locking dop this will only
involve using the Cheater. If unlocked, then set index 3 facet to just touch
the lap, rock/rotate the dop while adjusting the height till the facet is
flat to the lap and just skims over the lap and lock the dop). Paint Girdle
3 facet with waterproof Texta and lower to just touch the lap, swipe gently
across the lap and inspect. Use the Cheater to adjust for even removal of
Texta across the facet. Repeat as necessary.

The final alignment makes use of the unpolished part of the Girdle facets
(the bit you are going to cut off later when you cut the Crown). With the
89.5 degree angle, run the machine and briefly polish the far end of the
index 3 facet. Inspect, adjust Cheater, move to next Girdle facet and try
again. Keep doing this until the bottom edge of the polished area is
parallell to the original polished Girdle line. The stone is now accurately

Crown Mains:
Cut these in with your 600 grit lap and finish off with your fine lap
(Cutting to the same level on all facets and checking by swiping over the
stationary lap). Note the v shape at the Girdle and leave enough space at
the point of the v for your Girdle width (approx the thin end of a toothpick
but allow for some material removal during polishing). Note also that the
ends of the Main facets should be exactly in line with every second Girdle
facet line.

Set Protractor on 45 degrees and use your 45 degree dop. Adjust height =to
just touch stone to lap.

Get a small (about 4 inches per side) plastic set square (cut a rectangle
into the 90 degree bit so as it can be slid in close to the dop). Set it on
the lap and close to the dop parallell to the Quill to check that the two 45
degrees really give 90 degrees! Adjust the Protractor angle if necessary.
Now place it at right angles to the Quill line and rotate the dop to set up
90 degrees in that direction. Lock the dop and recheck with set square. (I
have a new valve stem from a lawnmower which fits my 45 degree dop. This has
a nice big flat accurately-machined end on it which makes a great surface to
align the dop with. After alignment I take it out and fit the dop with the
stone).This alignment makes sure that your Table is at right angles to the
axis through the Culet.

Cut the Table to about 60 per cent of the Girdle diameter (the Stars will
bring it back to about 50 per cent). Polish the Table.

When you re-insert your dopped stone after cutting the Table, re-set the
alignment of the stone by setting the Crown Main angle and lining up the
index 96 facet on your polishing lap (Texta, Rocking, Swiping as for the
Girdle above).The final Cheater adjustment is done by running the polishing
lap and SMALL touch of the stone on the lap. Check and inspect and adjust
Protractor angle and Cheater until the polishing is even (ie not only on one
side of the facet). Don't do too much of this on any one facet - if you need
several iterations move to the other Mains for these. Take a note of the
final Cheater position.

Star Facets:
Cut these with tiny touches to the lap -it is very easy to overcut here. Cut
initially 3 adjacent Stars, moving from one to another to bring them in
slowly. They should all be the same distance down the Main facet and they
should touch each other at the Table exactly in the middle of the Main
facets. (As a secondary check, when viewed sideways, the base of each Star
should form a straight line with the sides of the two adjacent Stars and
this can be used as a final check when all the Stars are cut). Once the
first three Stars have been cut the others can be cut in sequence to just
touch the previous Star (but cutting all the new ones in pairs may give a
more even result).

Break Facets:
These have to have the base touching two adjacent lines on the Girdle at the
same time as the apex touches the point of the Star facet. The angle for
this has to be found by trial and error. Set the Protractor angle at 3
degrees more than the Crown Mains angle and index to 93. Touch stone LIGHTLY
AND VERY BRIEFLY to the lap and inspect. Estimate if base and apex are going
to arrive at the same time and, if not, increase angle to widen base faster
or decrease to move apex up faster. Move to Index 3 and reset height so
stone just touches lap. Light cut and inspect. Continue on new Break facet
each time until correct angle is found. Write the angle down and note the
facet index where you got it right (facet x).
Now cut the Break facets in pairs either side of the Crown Mains lines (ie
9/15, 21/27 etc). Each pair should be made to meet with the Star facet above
them.(The Secondary Check is that the Crown Mains line should still end up
as a straight line going through the Girdle line. If you cut a little
alternately on each of the pair you can keep an eye on this secondary check
and cut so as the line is straightened). Cut around the stone until you get
back to facet x.

Overcutting is a fact of life - particularly in the early days!
If you overcut the Stars, you will probably have to recut the Mains. So that
you don't end up with too thin a Girdle in the process it is best to lower
the Mains angle by a degree or two. (This minimises the effect at the base
of the Mains but cuts in more at the Table. It gives a shallower Crown but
this can, in fact, cause greater brilliance and is sometimes done
deliberately with dark coloured stones).
If you overcut the Breaks, you will probably have to recut the Mains and
Stars - much better to take your time in the first place.

Polishing the Crown:
Again you should polish from the smallest-angle facets to the larger (Stars,
Mains, Breaks). Since there may be slight differences between the surfaces
of your cutting and polishing laps, you should always check that you have
"found" the facet (ie touch and inspect) before really polishing it. If you
adjust the Cheater at this point write it down together with the facet(s)
which it affects - just in case you have to come back at a later stage to
touch it up.

Well that's my 4 bits worth (4 bits to take account of the Aussie Dollar's
rotten exchange rate). If anyone has any questions or needs clarification,
please raise them on the Digest because:
a. That's what it's for.
b. Someone else (like I used to) might be lurking with an interest in the
thread but not game to ask the stupid questions.
c. Someone else out there may have a real good answer that we can both use.

Arch Morrison
Buderim, Australia
Old Faceters never die - they can't even meet with their Maker











PERSONALS: (General Lapidary and Faceting)






Lurking is fine, but participation is better for learning !
Post something from your experiences in gemcutting today!


My grandfather worked in a blacksmith shop when he was a boy, and
he used to tell me, when I was a little boy myself, how he had toughened
himself up so he could stand the rigors of blacksmithing.

     One story was how he had developed his arm and shoulder muscles.
He said he would stand outside behind the house and, with a 5-pound
potato sack in each hand, extend his arms straight out to his sides and
hold them there as long as he could.

     After a while he tried 10-pound potato sacks, then 50-pound potato
sacks and finally he got to where he could lift a 100-pound potato sack
in each hand and hold his arms straight out for more than a full minute!

     Next, he started putting potatoes in the sacks.

                                      --author unknown



"Talent does what it can; genius does what it must."

---Edward George Bulwer-Lytton---


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