Issue No.63 - Tuesday February 11, 2003
Moderated by: Thurmond Moore III
Committed to carrying on the fine works started
by Hale Sweeny and Jerry Dewbre
Click a link below to post to the list:
for faceting questions  faceters@caprock-spur.com
for lapidary questions lapidary@caprock-spur.com
Index to Today's Digest

01  RE: Blue Sapphire color?
02  RE: Blue Sapphire color?
03  RE: Question on pricing
04  RE: Star orientation methods
05  NEW: Saw Blades
06  RE: Looking for a Teacher


Subject: Sapphire.
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:04:45 -0500
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com (LapidaryArtsDigest)
From: "Jonathan L. Rolfe" <webmaster@gearloose.com>

At 01:48 PM 2/10/2003 -0600, you wrote:

>I would like to know the element that gives the blue color to sapphires.
>   Now, I know they are corundums  (Al2 O3) and I know that the red
>coloring element for rubies is chromium........but what is the element
>that gives sapphires their blue color.   I don't think it is
>cobalt..........that IS used in synthetic sapphires......but I am more
>inclined to think it is titanium.

Iron.  But in order to be blue, oxygen has to diffuse into the
lattice.  When sapphires are treated, they are not baked in a reducing kiln.
When Linde` grows star sapphires, the "cornflower blue" ones are first a
greyish brown until the oxygen diffusion step.  If the diffusion step is
omitted, they are the 'Honey Black" color.
Titanium can color quartz and sapphire a pink color.  It is responsible for
the col,or of rose quartz, for example, but its biggest contribution to
sapphire is the needles formed by its oxide, rutile, that cause the "silk"
that, when oriented, makes the star rubies and sapphires work.
Otherwise, this silk can sometimes be dissolved by the heat treating
process, and can clarify "sleepy" stones.
Iron is responsible for the beautiful blue in Iolite, too..a ring silicate
with iron.


Subject: Sapphire Coloration
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:06:48 -0500
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Peter L. Herschman, M.D." <herschm@golden.net>

Subject: sapphire
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:39:51 -0600
To: "LapidaryArtsDigest" <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Vernon Matthews" <matthews@bhil.com>

I would like to know the element that gives the blue color to sapphires.
  Now, I know they are corundums  (Al2 O3) and I know that the red
coloring element for rubies is chromium........but what is the element
that gives sapphires their blue color.   I don't think it is
cobalt..........that IS used in synthetic sapphires......but I am more
inclined to think it is titanium.   I'm just not sure of anything at
this time.
Can anyone out there help??          Thanks,         Vern  Matthews

Dear Vern and All:

Sapphire is coloured mainly by iron and titanium where they replace aluminum
of the Al2 O3 in the crystal lattice. The process is termed molecular charge
transfer. One electron from an iron atom temporarily jumps to a neighbouring
titanium atom, absorbing light in the process.

This information is summarized in Webster's Gems: Their Sources,
Descriptions and Indetification, 5th Edition Revised by Peter Reed 1994.

I suspect there are theories which have emerged more recently to explain
this process as well.

Best wishes,

Peter L. Herschman, M.D.


Subject: Re: Issue No.62 - Monday February 10, 2003
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:17:41 EST
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: Cutugem@aol.com

Doug, You are doing the lions share of the work on this project I see and I
doubt that you will be able to locate more than a few pieces at a time of
rough that will cut the same stone so you will be looking at a lot of rough I
would imagine. Then to cut to size can be a bit of a chore. Sometimes a stone
is a perfect 7 mm untill a crack shows up right on the girdle so cutting that
out makes it 6.5mm  etc. etc. etc. Doing the whole magilla is a bit much. I
have cut lots of rough for designers but it is always what I get out of it is
what they get. I just cut two sets of malay trillions in two seperate designs
and getting them all four at 8mm was a real pain. Dont short change your end
of the deal here. Most "same" size stones are cut using bags and bags of
rough and that way sorting through and finding matching pieces is a bit
easier. Doing it a few stones at a time will be hair pulling at times.  Just
a few thoughts on the subject.  Dennis on the North Coast


Subject: Idaho Star Garnets
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:54:40 -0800
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Thomas M. Donahue" <oldcrow@oregonfcu.com>

Rose Alene Mc Arthur:

Thank you for your response.   If I understand you right, I should
polish the flats till I find a star and work from there.    If I find a
star in a large crystal and I cut it in half, can I expect to find a
star running through the crystal and be found in both pieces.   When I
mentioned faceting, I have cut the very dark crystals in a French Rose,
very much like a faceted cab and quite attractive.    Thanks again for
the info.

Tom Donahue      oldcrow@oregonfcu.com


Subject: Saw Blades
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 04:10:53 -0500
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "RICHARD P ROSENTHAL" <kenaii@earthlink.net>

Dear list members, I am having a problem with my two foot saw, it is a
oil bath with a gravity feed, older type but the blad is fairly new. 
The problemis that lately my slbs have been coming out atpered
,vertically.  I cut exclusively nephrite on this saw and originally the
slabs came out very uniform.   Initially i could cut slabs as thin as
about a half inch thick and they would come out very uniform. I  have
ocasionlaly had the saw jam or stop in the middle of a cut, this may
have thrown the blade out of round. It still cuts well and should have
plenty of diamond left. Mostly I am interested in a slution if anyone
can suggest one. Should i take the blade out and try to sraighten it if
it is curved. Perhaps others have had this problem and know the cause or
have a solution.I am cutting for people in the trade and selling less
then uniform material is nt an option for many of them asit can cause
them much extra work. I am cutting all my smaller stuff on my ten inch[
hand feed] saw but this is very labor intensive, although it allows me
to correct if things start to go off the mark. Much nicer just closing
the machine and coming back in thirty minutes to extract the slab.  I
have not drained the oil[almag]out to filter out residue from past cuts
could this be the problem. The saw holds about five gallons through
which the blade circulates a it cuts and most of what i cut is less the
eleven inches in hieght.I hate to buy another blade as they are almost
seven hundred a pop so I would appreciate terribly any thoughts or
suggestions. Thanks Richard


Subject: Re: Issue No.56 - Friday January 31, 2003  (Looking for a Teacher)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:47:23 -0500
To: "LapidaryArtsDigest" <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "All That Glitters" <atggems@netzero.net>

Yes, the Capital Mineral Club out of Concord should have some cutters.  They
sponsor the Sunapee Mineral Show which I believe is held sometime in
September (I believe).

L. Allen Brown
Gemologist - GIA
All That Glitters



Hale Sweeny's Lapidary Digest Archives http://www.lapidarydigest.com/
International Lapidary Association http://www.gemcutters.org
http://webdev.archive.org/ then enter www.liccini.com


Facetron: http://www.facetron.com/
Graves: http://www.rockhounds.com/graves/
MDR: http://www.mdr-facet.com/
Polymetric: http://www.polymetricinc.com/
Ultra-tec: http://www.ultratec-facet.com
Fac-Ette Manufacturing Company: (910)256-9248
http://www.fac-ette.com/ 800-336-9248.
Raytech Industries: http://www.raytech-ind.com
Rock Peddler: 1-800-416-4348 / www.rockpeddler.com



Accredited Gemologists Association, http://aga.polygon.net/
American Gem Society, (AGS) 702-255-6500
American Gem Trade Association, (AGTA) http://www.agta.org
Gemmological Assc. & GTL / Great Britain, http://www.gagtl.ac.uk/gagtl
Gemmological Association of Australia, http://www.gem.org.au
Gemological Institute of America, (GIA) http://www.gia.edu.giagem
International Gem Society (IGS) web site is: http://www.gemsociety.org
International Colored Gemstone Association, http://www.gemstone.org
My Gemologist http://www.mygemologist.com


FACETING GUILDS (Alphabetically, World) ~

*Charleston Faceting Guild, South Carolina, wmcnay@mindspring.com.
*Columbia-Willamette Faceter's Guild, http://www.facetersguild.com/
*Danish Faceters Guild, http://medlem.spray.se/danfacet/
*East/Central Florida:Tomoka Gem and Mineral Society's Faceters Guild,
Don Cameron: ghgemcutter@earthlink.net
*Eastern Mass Faceter's Group, rockpeddler@attbi.com
*Faceter's Forum Society-LaPorte, IN VESteele@aol.com
*Faceter's Guild of N. California, Wayne Meissner, lklomp@cnetech.com
*Faceter's Guild of S. California, Jerry W. Carroll, (818)348-6327
*Intermountain Faceter's Guild, Carl M. Unruh, (360)385-3753
*Midwest Faceter's Guild, Tyler Miller,  tmiller277@comcast.net
*Mid-Williamette Faceters Guild, Albany, Oregon, Michael E. Bumcrot;
E-mail @ MBumcrot@valleyoilco.com
*Moreton Bay is a branch of the Australian Facetors' Guild, Brisbane,
Queensland. http://cwpp.slq.qld.gov.au/afg
*New Mexico Faceter's Guild, Nancy Attaway, attaway@highfiber.com
*North Puget Sound Faceting Guild, Keith Wyman, tfw@fidalgo.net
*Tacoma Faceting Guild, Chuck Bloch chuck_b@prodigy.net
*Texas Faceter's Guild, Jill Rowlands, gemsbyj@aol.com
*Seattle Faceting Club (LeonardBahr@prodigy.net)
*United States Faceting Guild (Keith Wyman, tfw@fidalgo.net)
*Vancouver Island Faceters' Guild - British Columbia, Canada.

(Add your faceting organization here, US or International - Write to
( owner-lapidary@caprock-spur.com or owner-faceters@caprock-spur.com )




This sign was prominently displayed in the window of a business in
Philadelphia. You are probably outraged at the thought of such an
inflammatory statement. One would think that anti-hate groups from all
across the country would be marching on this business...
And that the National Guard might have to be called to keep the angry
crowds back. But, perhaps in these stressful times one might be tempted
to let the proprietors simply make their statement . . . We are a
society who holds Freedom of Speech as perhaps our greatest liberty . .
. And after all, it is just a sign. You may ask what kind of business
would dare post such a sign?

A Funeral Home

(Who said morticians had no sense of humor)



" The more you add to the truth, the more you
actually subtract from it!"

--- Author Unknown ---


The Lubbock Gem and Mineral Society is looking for 2 more vendors
for our Spring Show at the Lubbock Civic Center May 17th and 18th.
Setup day for the show is Friday May 16, 2003.  If you are a vendor and
would like more information concerning the show please call Ed Ries at


Subject: Subject add
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:47:26 -0500
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "RICHARD P ROSENTHAL" <kenaii@earthlink.net>

Date Febuary 6th /03      
Green Siberian Nephrite Jade
Carving ,Sculpture Grade, Some Black Spots, Ten dollars a pound up to
fifty pound pieces.
Jewelry grade, Green with Green chrome spots, Superior Transluscense and
Color, Fifty dollars per pound
Please contact Kenaii@earthlink.net    or check the material out at


TUCSON           February 6 - February 11, 2003             TUCSON
LOWE  ASSOCIATES  -  Robert P. Lowe Jr. invites you to visit us in
Booth # 205 at the GJX - Gem & Jewelry Exchange, Downtown Tucson, for
TOURMALINES - in Greens, Pinks, Indicolite, Rubelite, Salmon, Yellow,
Silver, Orange, Purple, Bi-color, Tri-color, - sliced, faceted,
cabochons, Paraiba and Rough. TOURMALINES in Watermelon Slices,
Singles, Matched Pairs, Sets, Cabochon Slices, plus all the other
Brazilian Colored Stones, including - Aquamarine, Citrine, Blue Beryl,
Rutilated Quartz (Calibrated), Imperial Topaz, Alexandrite, Kunzite,
Brazilian Opals - Crystal & Boulder, rare Purple Topaz Specimens,
Amethyst, Morganite, Faceted Gemstone Beads, Emeralds - faceted,
cabochon, carved & Slices, Emerald Faceting Rough, Emerald Crystals,
Emerald Specimens, Emerald Jewelry - And Faceted Spessartite Garnet.
Rough - Dark Aquamarine, Amethyst, Citrine, Spessartite garnet,
Lowe  Associates  -  Robert P. Lowe Jr.
Rua do Mirante, 573
13801-100 Mogi Mirim, SP, Brasil
Telephone: 55-19-3862-4217
Telefax:   55-19-3806-4354
e-mail: < robertplowejr@juno.com > in USA
e-mail: < robertplowejr@uol.com.br > in Brazil


Rough to Cut
If you're looking for quality facet rough please check out Rough to Cut,
http://www.roughtocut.com. We offer a wide range of quality facet rough
from Aquamarine to Zircon. Large selections in stock currently of Beryl,
Garnets & Tourmalines. Please check us out & when you do, why not give a
try to our contest, you could win a 5ct + piece of Spessartite garnet
facet rough.

Rough to Cut


Subject: AD
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 20:50:44 -0800
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: "P. Miklik" <b-daw@pacbell.net>

Contact b-daw@pacbell.net

Honey, red & brown zircons, 10g parcels @$20/parcel

Red Garnet $8/g, eye clean-slightly included
Spessartine Garnet $7.50/g, slight-moderately included
Malaya Garnet $6/g, good eye clean roughs
Tunduri Garnet $10/g, eye clean-slightly included

Pink Tourmaline $20/g, eye clean-slightly included
Red Tourmaline $10/g, slight-moderately included
Bicolor Tourmaline $15/g, eye clean
Watermelon Tourmaline $20/g eye clean
Green/Green Blue Tourmaline $10/g, eye clean roughs

Blue, Green & Blue/Green Sapphires $35/g, eye clean-slightly         
included, up to 1g.

Blue Beryl (Aquamarine) $6/g, eye clean-slightly included crystals
Green Beryl (Emerald) $10-$50/g, eye clean-slightly included crystals,
zoned green
Cabbing Grade Aquamarine $3/g


Rock Peddler
Complete online discount catalog for cabbing and faceting machines, wheels,
laps, polishes, diamond saws, diamond blades, and general lapidary supplies
at http://www.rockpeddler.com.


Gewelers Gems
e-mail: sales@jewelersgems.com
Solid copper laps 1/4 thick 8" and 6"  you can charge both sides with
diamond. http://www.jewelersgems.com

NOW ONLINE!  RRGaetan Gem Rough - Featuring excellent, facet-grade,
Colombian Emerald rough! PLUS, Chrome Tourmaline, Achroite Tourmaline,
Golden Chrome Tourmaline, Aquamarine, Spess, Mint and Malaya Garnets,
and more! For photos and more information, visit us at rrgaetan.com.




For All National and International Masters, Past-Masters and
World-Class Cutters:

This post is simply a reminder that in 2003 the USFG will host its
first National and International Faceting Competition.  It is called
the North American Faceting  Challenge -- 'NAFC.'   Since the designs
and rules were first published in the 2001 September Issue of  the
USFG's Newsletter, and since they have not been published since 2001,
some of you, who are most capable - skill-wise, may not
know about the competition, and some of you may have forgotten.   The
"NAFC" is an OPEN Competition.   Please note:  The designs and rules
can be downloaded at  <http://www.usfacetersguild.org/events.shtml>.
The closing date is June 20th, 2003;  the amount of time between the
present date and June 20th, 2003 should be enough for all Master
cutters to cut the two required designs -- Fred Van Sant's "Four
Star," and Charles Covill's "Wind Wheel No. 2."   If   further
information is needed, please contact me at <clmoon@pacbell.net>.

Charlie Moon





  Presented by the Faceter's Guild of Southern California
    At the Seaside GEMboree AFMS/CFMS Convention & Show
           Ventura, California June 6-7-8, 2003

     You are invited to participate in the Faceters
Symposium 2003 which will be held at the Seaside Park
(Ventura Fairgrounds) at Ventura, California during the
AFMS/CFMS Convention & Show.  The Faceters Symposium dates
are June 6th, 7th, & 8th.  That is Friday, Saturday, &
Sunday.  The CFMS GEMboree is on those dates as well as on
Thursday the 5th of June.  All of this is at the same
location, just a hundred yards from the beach.

     The Faceters Symposium will feature ten speakers, who
will have presentations covering various parts of gemstone
faceting interests.  A Hospitality Hour on Friday evening
and a Saturday Awards Luncheon are also part of the
Symposium.  There will be competitions at the Novice,
Advanced, & Masters levels.  Get started on your
competition entry soon.

     The CFMS GEMboree itself will have buildings that have
exhibits on display, dealers with their wares to offer,
demonstrators to show how it is done, and speakers with
presentations covering other lapidary fields of interest.

     For information & costs regarding the Faceters
Symposium (including competition information), your contact
is listed below.  Ask for one of the Packets.  Be sure to
state your snail mailing address so that a Packet can be
mailed to you.

Glenn Klein, Chairman
24001 Muirlands Blvd., Space #79
Lake Forest, CA 92630        email:   glennklein@yahoo.com


Lubbock Gem and Mineral Society is proud to present it's
45th Annual Gem, Mineral, Fossil,& Jewelry Show.
WHEN: May 17-18, 2003
Where: Lubbock Civic Center, Lubbock, Texas
Time: Sat.5/17: 10am-6pm
          Sun.5/18: 10am-5pm
For more information contact Archie Scott
e-mail: asscott2@door.net
telephone: 806-894-1584       



KANSAS: If anyone in the central portion of the country from Oklahoma city
to Wichita to Kansas City would be interested in forming something like the
Flatland Facet Guild or some such name give me a line at
Larry W. Davis

ILLINOIS - MISSOURI (Central Area, hubed around St. Louis, Missouri) A
group of 4 faceters have met and we had a great time. We intend to meet
again and would like to have fellow faceters join our group. I received an
email from another Newbie that expressed interest in attending our next get
together. Faceters from any and all areas are welcome... It's swell to meet
personally and exchange tips and hints! COME JOIN OUR GROUP! It's FREE! ;o)
Doug Smith, Alton, IL .at: gembin@spiff.net

INDIANA: I moved to Valparaiso, (Northwest) Indiana, about three years ago.
Are there any clubs in this area? or is there anyone interested in starting
one? I do faceting and some cabbing. Not much here but cornfields. Nice
scenery, but I get sooooooo lonely. LOL Let me know. (Bill) "William
J.Pysnack" <wjpin@home.com>

S.E. LOUISIANA: Anyone in or around the New Orleans, LA area wishing to
form a club or have get togethers for faceting, discussions, cabbing,
procurement, etc. Please contact me via email @ tbird@bayouself.org. (Thom
Bird - Chalmette, LA)

MISSISSIPPI: If anyone is near Meridian Mississippi and would be interested
in forming some kind of club or just get together with faceting and/or
cabbing please e-mail me at jennings@netdoor.com Thanks, Jim

TEXAS: Anyone in the Corpus Christi or Coastal Bend area that is interested
in starting a local faceter's guild contact me at: hankswan@earthlink.net or
gemscc@msn.com or telephone 361-857-2405 (days) or 361-992-1296
(evenings).Hank swan

WASHINGTON DC.(Rockville Md area) Looking for folks to get together
occasionally to facet. I have just started faceting and am also interested
in sphere making (infinate # of facets) Robert Winfield

Lurking is fine, but participation is more fun!! Get involved!!


is produced by Thurmond Moore III

Tempie Francis, Attorney at Law / Legal Advisor


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