Issue No.59 - Wednesday February 5, 2003
Moderated by: Thurmond Moore III
Committed to carrying on the fine works started
by Hale Sweeny and Jerry Dewbre
Click a link below to post to the list:
for faceting questions  faceters@caprock-spur.com
for lapidary questions lapidary@caprock-spur.com
Index to Today's Digest

01  RE: Debonding a "copper topper" lap in oven
02  private answers to questions
03  RE: Aqua Rough prices
04  RE: Star sapphire orientation methods
05  RE: Recycling Lap Plates
06  RE: Tumblers / Vibrating Units


Subject: Re:Debonding a "copper topper" lap in oven
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:02:54 -0800
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: Phillip L Stonebrook <plstonebrook@juno.com>

Greetings list and Frank....

<<Phillip Stonebrook wrote: SNIP>Well, I guess I'll now salvage the
"master lap" portion from these after a trip thru the oven.<SNIP

<<Many adhesives are flammable. I'd find out what kind of "glue" is used
on the lap, especially with a gas oven. Also, it's winter here on the
shores of Lake Michigan and as a result, houses are buttoned down tight.
If you think solvents smell strong at room temp, they'll positively knock
you off your feet at 200 degrees F.  Think about some ventilation.
Frank Romano>>

Good points .. always good to remember the "safety issues". In my case
it's an electric oven, I used the hood over the oven at full blast which
is vented to the outside and currently, here in Florida at the end of
January, all windows are open to the 70+ degree F fresh air. [:>) The
"topper" debonded at 250 degrees enough to allow the topper to slide off
the master.

I'm glad I did this, as I found 2 large areas on the master that had no
glue residue, definitely indicating a manufacturing problem. The glue
appears to be some type of thermal setting glue, like that used in a hot
glue gun. There was also a "membrane" between the topper and master; I
assume this was a double sided carrier for the adhesive. With all of
these various areas of construction susceptible to manufacturing defects
in the topper lap (which may not show up for months), and my satisfaction
of Mike's machining quality on his solid copper laps, I'm in the process
of changing over to all solid laps. I'm back to precision cutting again
with these solid laps. Also, the cheaper initial price of a "copper
topper over master" (only $15 against JewelersGems 8" solid copper)
doesn't compare to the overall better price performance of a lifetime
solid copper lap (with a little care, or lathe resurfaced without) that
can always be recharged to bring it back to "like new cutting speed".

I didn't clean off the master, as I am keeping it as I found it after
debonding for Lapcraft's evaluation of warranty, but that's another

Best regards....
Phil in Florida


Subject: private answers to questions
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:31:36 +0200
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "birdamlasu" <fob@birdamlasu.com>

Hello all..
Some of us are not sure how to ask a question about a specific subject
and when one see a question of her or his problem is excited that the
answer will be in the next digest. Then the next day there is a thank
you note from the person who asked the question.
Don't you think it is the best to answer the questions through the
digest so that everybody can make a use of it?
Kind regards from Turkey,
Oya Borahan


Subject: Aqua
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 11:19:10 -0500
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: "Douglas Turet" <anotherbrightidea@hotmail.com>

Don Sommerfield asked:
"One of my good friends passed away and his widow asked me to evaluate  some
aquamarine rough. I do not facet, but I do lots of cabochons so I have
little knowledge of the rough prices. Can any one give me a price range for
some pretty good looking stuff?"

Hi Don,

     I don't mean to sound evasive, but the question you've asked is sort of
like asking "How much should a blue car cost?", in that there are a good
many variables involved, most of which require a hands-on inspection by a
skilled judge, in order to answer as effectively and accurately as possible.
To begin with, is this rough completely flawless, or does it at least
possess large areas in each piece that are? If not, how included does it
appear to be, when viewed in daylight against a dark background, under 10x
     Next up, what is the material's color? Is it light blue, light green,
light blue-green or greenish-blue, and, on a scale of 0-100%, what is the
depth of its color saturation? (Note that 100% = total color extinction, or
such inkiness that light cannot reflect back through the piece, when it's
viewed while resting on top of a sheet of white paper.) Also, is the color
pure, or modified ("muddied") by even small percentages of grey, or brown?
And, finally, what are the individual pieces' shapes like? Are they fairly
blocky chunks, or long, slender crystals (or something in between)?
     All of the above are factors which play a part in determining an
Aquamarine rough's market value, which can vary pretty widely -- from $0.50
or $1 a _gram_, all the way up to $45-50 a _carat_ (1/5 of a gram)! If you'd
like to send me a small representative sample of the material you and your
firend's widow are now pouring over, I'd be more than happy to evaluate and
return it to you. If it's decent enough, I might even offer to buy it from
you; if not, I'll certainly be able to refer you to others who may wish to.
Either way, I hope I've been helpful to you.

All my best,

Douglas Turet, GJ
Lapidary Artist, Designer & Goldsmith.
Turet Design
P. O. Box 162
Arlington, MA 02476, U.S.A.
Tel. (617) 325-5328
Fax: (928) 222-0815
Email: anotherbrightidea@hotmail.com


Subject: Star sapphires (long)
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 11:58:43 -0500
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: "Douglas Turet" <anotherbrightidea@hotmail.com>

Walter Reisbick wrote:
"This is my first time to post a question, so it is a new experience. I
have approximately a pound of star sapphire rough that looks like so
many rocks but they all have the ability to star. They also change
appearance drasticly when polished. I bought this rough to practice with but
so far I seem to be  missing the mark. Is there an easy method of locating
the correct position to grind the stone?"

Hi Walter,

     First and foremost, it sounds to me like you may be directly quoting
your supplier when you say, "but they all have the ability to star"... If
you're consistently "missing the mark", ther _is_ a possibility that it's
the rough that's to blame for that, and not just you. That much said, the
way to cut any and all asteriated (i.e. "Star") gemstones is to first orient
them so that the "C" axis is facing up. To take that a step further, imagine
that you're holding a foot-long piece of a 2x4" in your hands, and that it
represents a crystal of a mineral or gem rough. The narrowest dimension of
this "crystal" (the 2" dimension) would be called the "A" axis, since it's
the first of the three primary geometrical axes, or measurement directions,
of the piece. The next-thickest in order would be the "B" axis, and the last
one -- the direction of growth, also known as the "Crystallographic" axis --
is the "C" axis. (In all fairness, there are also those who refer to these
as the "X", "Y", and "Z" axes but, for gemological reference, the original
format is the most used.)
     Now, look at the pieces of rough you've bought. Since Star Sapphires
are a part of the Corundum family, and since Corundums form within the
hexagonal crystal system, what you'll want to do with each piece of rough is
to slowly rotate it in your fingers, until you're able to make out the
outline of either part, or all, of an equilateral hexagon. When you're
looking straight down at a hexagonal shape, you'll have identified the "C"
axis of that particular crystal. Now, geologically speaking, when a crystal
forms, it "grows", just like a tree, forming growth-lines (and color zones)
which often closely resemble the rings of a tree, although in this case,
hexagonal. When enough Titanium and Oxygen are present at the time of
formation, these frequently form the mineral Rutile, which tends to grow in
short, needle-like crystals on the outer skins of Corundum crystals, and
which eventually causes enough inner reflection in the Corundum crystal to
make it look slightly "silky". And, when enough Aluminum Oxide subsequently
becomes available to enable the Corundum crystal to resume it's growth, the
Rutile stops growing, just long enough for its host to add another layer. If
enough of these "silk" layers grow in the crystal, if they're dispersed
evenly enough in the crystal structure, and if the "C" axis of such a stone
is subsequently cabbed at the right angle... VOILA! A star is born!
     So, what you're going to want to do, her, is first identify the C-axis,
then saw or grind a flat base, from which to work from and dop onto. Next,
to get a star whose six legs reach all the way from the top dead center to
the outer edges, you're going to want to cut a 30-35% crown. That is, a
cabochon-dome that's approximately as high as 30-35% of the stone's width.
My suggestion would be to do this with Diamond abrasives, if at all
possible, since they tend to hold up and maintain particle sizes better, in
the long run. As always, make sure that you remove all tracesw of your
current grit (with soapy water and a toothbrush) before going oo to the next
finer grit size. If you can't make out the hazy, pale streaks of a star or,
at least, a bright sheen, by the time that you reach the 1,200 or 3,000 grit
stages, then the problem isn't so much your technique as it is the rough
you're cutting on. (And don't be surprised if that turns out to be the
case... most of the cheap "Star Ruby" that we've all started out on -- me
included, back in '72 -- is that awful greyish-purplish-red stuff from
MYsore India... and I'm someone who believes that that location was
particularly well named!)
     Well, enough about all that, for one letter. I hope my directions have
helped you a bit, Walter. Let me know how you make out, okay?

All the best,
Doug Turet

Douglas Turet, GJ
Lapidary Artist, Designer & Goldsmith.
Turet Design
P. O. Box 162
Arlington, MA 02476, U.S.A.
Tel. (617) 325-5328
Fax: (928) 222-0815
Email: anotherbrightidea@hotmail.com


Subject: Re: Issue No.58 - Tuesday February 4, 2003
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 13:47:33 EST
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: Send2mail@aol.com


Great tips !  Exactly what type of ceramic media are you using, there are
literally hundreds of types, combined with sizes, which are available these
days for the finishing industries... Ceramic cylinders, cones, stars, etc,
impregnated with oxides or carbides, non impregnated / no abrasives, high
density, low density, etc.....

Cleaning out the bowl can be a problem....... I have 3 separate bowls for
doing 3 to 6 different steps..Of course 2 - 4 steps will be fine for most
materials..First bowl - 30 or 60 or 90 or 120 or 220 Then second bowl 320 400
500 600 1000 Last bowl is for Pre Polishes and Sub micron Polishes ONLY....At
least in theory this is my plan, as I am just starting to learn about the
tumbling jungle adventures...

I also have used a small amount of tumbling carrier powder from Covington
called "Old Miser" .... It seems to be some type of Diatomaceous earth-like
clay product, used to thicken the slurry and help the rocks and media proceed
in rotation better...

Take care




Hale Sweeny's Lapidary Digest Archives http://www.lapidarydigest.com/
International Lapidary Association http://www.gemcutters.org
http://webdev.archive.org/ then enter www.liccini.com


Facetron: http://www.facetron.com/
Graves: http://www.rockhounds.com/graves/
MDR: http://www.mdr-facet.com/
Polymetric: http://www.polymetricinc.com/
Ultra-tec: http://www.ultratec-facet.com
Fac-Ette Manufacturing Company: (910)256-9248
http://www.fac-ette.com/ 800-336-9248.
Raytech Industries: http://www.raytech-ind.com
Rock Peddler: 1-800-416-4348 / www.rockpeddler.com



Accredited Gemologists Association, http://aga.polygon.net/
American Gem Society, (AGS) 702-255-6500
American Gem Trade Association, (AGTA) http://www.agta.org
Gemmological Assc. & GTL / Great Britain, http://www.gagtl.ac.uk/gagtl
Gemmological Association of Australia, http://www.gem.org.au
Gemological Institute of America, (GIA) http://www.gia.edu.giagem
International Gem Society (IGS) web site is: http://www.gemsociety.org
International Colored Gemstone Association, http://www.gemstone.org
My Gemologist http://www.mygemologist.com


FACETING GUILDS (Alphabetically, World) ~

*Charleston Faceting Guild, South Carolina, wmcnay@mindspring.com.
*Columbia-Willamette Faceter's Guild, http://www.facetersguild.com/
*Danish Faceters Guild, http://medlem.spray.se/danfacet/
*East/Central Florida:Tomoka Gem and Mineral Society's Faceters Guild,
Don Cameron: ghgemcutter@earthlink.net
*Eastern Mass Faceter's Group, rockpeddler@attbi.com
*Faceter's Forum Society-LaPorte, IN VESteele@aol.com
*Faceter's Guild of N. California, Wayne Meissner, lklomp@cnetech.com
*Faceter's Guild of S. California, Jerry W. Carroll, (818)348-6327
*Intermountain Faceter's Guild, Carl M. Unruh, (360)385-3753
*Midwest Faceter's Guild, Tyler Miller,  tmiller277@comcast.net
*Mid-Williamette Faceters Guild, Albany, Oregon, Michael E. Bumcrot;
E-mail @ MBumcrot@valleyoilco.com
*Moreton Bay is a branch of the Australian Facetors' Guild, Brisbane,
Queensland. http://cwpp.slq.qld.gov.au/afg
*New Mexico Faceter's Guild, Nancy Attaway, attaway@highfiber.com
*North Puget Sound Faceting Guild, Keith Wyman, tfw@fidalgo.net
*Tacoma Faceting Guild, Chuck Bloch chuck_b@prodigy.net
*Texas Faceter's Guild, Jill Rowlands, gemsbyj@aol.com
*Seattle Faceting Club (LeonardBahr@prodigy.net)
*United States Faceting Guild (Keith Wyman, tfw@fidalgo.net)
*Vancouver Island Faceters' Guild - British Columbia, Canada.

(Add your faceting organization here, US or International - Write to
( owner-lapidary@caprock-spur.com or owner-faceters@caprock-spur.com )



Food quotes and quips
Food quotes, quips, and thoughts . . .

"Artichokes ... are just plain annoying ... After all the trouble you go to, you
get about as much actual 'food' out of eating an artichoke as you would from
licking thirty or forty postage stamps. Have the shrimp cocktail instead." -- Miss Piggy

"The most remarkable thing about my mother is that for 30 years she served the
family nothing but leftovers. The original meal has never been found." --Sam Levinson

"This recipe is certainly silly. It says to separate two eggs, but it doesn't say how far
to separate them." -- Gracie Allen

"I've been on a constant diet for the last two decades. I've lost a total of 789 pounds.
By all accounts, I should be hanging from a charm bracelet." -- Erma Bombeck

"I told my doctor I get very tired when I go on a diet, so he gave me pep pills.
Know what happened? I ate faster." -- Joe E. Lewis

"I will not eat oysters. I want my food dead -- not sick, not wounded -- dead." -- Woody Allen

"Food is an important part of a balanced diet." -- Fran Lebowitz

"Health food makes me sick." -- Calvin Trillin

"Watermelon -- it's a good fruit. You eat, you drink, you wash your face." -- Enrico Caruso

"Old people shouldn't eat health foods. They need all the preservatives they can get." -- Robert Orben



" Times change, people change, and its  easy
to take things for granted. So be aware of what
you have, and thank God for it daily."

--- Author Unknown ---



TUCSON           February 6 - February 11, 2003             TUCSON
LOWE  ASSOCIATES  -  Robert P. Lowe Jr. invites you to visit us in
Booth # 205 at the GJX - Gem & Jewelry Exchange, Downtown Tucson, for
TOURMALINES - in Greens, Pinks, Indicolite, Rubelite, Salmon, Yellow,
Silver, Orange, Purple, Bi-color, Tri-color, - sliced, faceted,
cabochons, Paraiba and Rough. TOURMALINES in Watermelon Slices,
Singles, Matched Pairs, Sets, Cabochon Slices, plus all the other
Brazilian Colored Stones, including - Aquamarine, Citrine, Blue Beryl,
Rutilated Quartz (Calibrated), Imperial Topaz, Alexandrite, Kunzite,
Brazilian Opals - Crystal & Boulder, rare Purple Topaz Specimens,
Amethyst, Morganite, Faceted Gemstone Beads, Emeralds - faceted,
cabochon, carved & Slices, Emerald Faceting Rough, Emerald Crystals,
Emerald Specimens, Emerald Jewelry - And Faceted Spessartite Garnet.
Rough - Dark Aquamarine, Amethyst, Citrine, Spessartite garnet,
Lowe  Associates  -  Robert P. Lowe Jr.
Rua do Mirante, 573
13801-100 Mogi Mirim, SP, Brasil
Telephone: 55-19-3862-4217
Telefax:   55-19-3806-4354
e-mail: < robertplowejr@juno.com > in USA
e-mail: < robertplowejr@uol.com.br > in Brazil


Rough to Cut
If you're looking for quality facet rough please check out Rough to Cut,
http://www.roughtocut.com. We offer a wide range of quality facet rough
from Aquamarine to Zircon. Large selections in stock currently of Beryl,
Garnets & Tourmalines. Please check us out & when you do, why not give a
try to our contest, you could win a 5ct + piece of Spessartite garnet
facet rough.

Rough to Cut


Subject: AD
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 20:50:44 -0800
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: "P. Miklik" <b-daw@pacbell.net>

Contact b-daw@pacbell.net

Honey, red & brown zircons, 10g parcels @$20/parcel

Red Garnet $8/g, eye clean-slightly included
Spessartine Garnet $7.50/g, slight-moderately included
Malaya Garnet $6/g, good eye clean roughs
Tunduri Garnet $10/g, eye clean-slightly included

Pink Tourmaline $20/g, eye clean-slightly included
Red Tourmaline $10/g, slight-moderately included
Bicolor Tourmaline $15/g, eye clean
Watermelon Tourmaline $20/g eye clean
Green/Green Blue Tourmaline $10/g, eye clean roughs

Blue, Green & Blue/Green Sapphires $35/g, eye clean-slightly         
included, up to 1g.

Blue Beryl (Aquamarine) $6/g, eye clean-slightly included crystals
Green Beryl (Emerald) $10-$50/g, eye clean-slightly included crystals,
zoned green
Cabbing Grade Aquamarine $3/g


Rock Peddler
Complete online discount catalog for cabbing and faceting machines, wheels,
laps, polishes, diamond saws, diamond blades, and general lapidary supplies
at http://www.rockpeddler.com.


Gewelers Gems
e-mail: sales@jewelersgems.com
Solid copper laps 1/4 thick 8" and 6"  you can charge both sides with
diamond. http://www.jewelersgems.com

NOW ONLINE!  RRGaetan Gem Rough - Featuring excellent, facet-grade,
Colombian Emerald rough! PLUS, Chrome Tourmaline, Achroite Tourmaline,
Golden Chrome Tourmaline, Aquamarine, Spess, Mint and Malaya Garnets,
and more! For photos and more information, visit us at rrgaetan.com.




For All National and International Masters, Past-Masters and
World-Class Cutters:

This post is simply a reminder that in 2003 the USFG will host its
first National and International Faceting Competition.  It is called
the North American Faceting  Challenge -- 'NAFC.'   Since the designs
and rules were first published in the 2001 September Issue of  the
USFG's Newsletter, and since they have not been published since 2001,
some of you, who are most capable - skill-wise, may not
know about the competition, and some of you may have forgotten.   The
"NAFC" is an OPEN Competition.   Please note:  The designs and rules
can be downloaded at  <http://www.usfacetersguild.org/events.shtml>.
The closing date is June 20th, 2003;  the amount of time between the
present date and June 20th, 2003 should be enough for all Master
cutters to cut the two required designs -- Fred Van Sant's "Four
Star," and Charles Covill's "Wind Wheel No. 2."   If   further
information is needed, please contact me at <clmoon@pacbell.net>.

Charlie Moon





  Presented by the Faceter's Guild of Southern California
    At the Seaside GEMboree AFMS/CFMS Convention & Show
           Ventura, California June 6-7-8, 2003

     You are invited to participate in the Faceters
Symposium 2003 which will be held at the Seaside Park
(Ventura Fairgrounds) at Ventura, California during the
AFMS/CFMS Convention & Show.  The Faceters Symposium dates
are June 6th, 7th, & 8th.  That is Friday, Saturday, &
Sunday.  The CFMS GEMboree is on those dates as well as on
Thursday the 5th of June.  All of this is at the same
location, just a hundred yards from the beach.

     The Faceters Symposium will feature ten speakers, who
will have presentations covering various parts of gemstone
faceting interests.  A Hospitality Hour on Friday evening
and a Saturday Awards Luncheon are also part of the
Symposium.  There will be competitions at the Novice,
Advanced, & Masters levels.  Get started on your
competition entry soon.

     The CFMS GEMboree itself will have buildings that have
exhibits on display, dealers with their wares to offer,
demonstrators to show how it is done, and speakers with
presentations covering other lapidary fields of interest.

     For information & costs regarding the Faceters
Symposium (including competition information), your contact
is listed below.  Ask for one of the Packets.  Be sure to
state your snail mailing address so that a Packet can be
mailed to you.

Glenn Klein, Chairman
24001 Muirlands Blvd., Space #79
Lake Forest, CA 92630        email:   glennklein@yahoo.com


Lubbock Gem and Mineral Society is proud to present it's
45th Annual Gem, Mineral, Fossil,& Jewelry Show.
WHEN: May 17-18, 2003
Where: Lubbock Civic Center, Lubbock, Texas
Time: Sat.5/17: 10am-6pm
          Sun.5/18: 10am-5pm
For more information contact Archie Scott
e-mail: asscott2@door.net
telephone: 806-894-1584       



KANSAS: If anyone in the central portion of the country from Oklahoma city
to Wichita to Kansas City would be interested in forming something like the
Flatland Facet Guild or some such name give me a line at
Larry W. Davis

ILLINOIS - MISSOURI (Central Area, hubed around St. Louis, Missouri) A
group of 4 faceters have met and we had a great time. We intend to meet
again and would like to have fellow faceters join our group. I received an
email from another Newbie that expressed interest in attending our next get
together. Faceters from any and all areas are welcome... It's swell to meet
personally and exchange tips and hints! COME JOIN OUR GROUP! It's FREE! ;o)
Doug Smith, Alton, IL .at: gembin@spiff.net

INDIANA: I moved to Valparaiso, (Northwest) Indiana, about three years ago.
Are there any clubs in this area? or is there anyone interested in starting
one? I do faceting and some cabbing. Not much here but cornfields. Nice
scenery, but I get sooooooo lonely. LOL Let me know. (Bill) "William
J.Pysnack" <wjpin@home.com>

S.E. LOUISIANA: Anyone in or around the New Orleans, LA area wishing to
form a club or have get togethers for faceting, discussions, cabbing,
procurement, etc. Please contact me via email @ tbird@bayouself.org. (Thom
Bird - Chalmette, LA)

MISSISSIPPI: If anyone is near Meridian Mississippi and would be interested
in forming some kind of club or just get together with faceting and/or
cabbing please e-mail me at jennings@netdoor.com Thanks, Jim

TEXAS: Anyone in the Corpus Christi or Coastal Bend area that is interested
in starting a local faceter's guild contact me at: hankswan@earthlink.net or
gemscc@msn.com or telephone 361-857-2405 (days) or 361-992-1296
(evenings).Hank swan

WASHINGTON DC.(Rockville Md area) Looking for folks to get together
occasionally to facet. I have just started faceting and am also interested
in sphere making (infinate # of facets) Robert Winfield

Lurking is fine, but participation is more fun!! Get involved!!


is produced by Thurmond Moore III

Tempie Francis, Attorney at Law / Legal Advisor


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