Issue No.57 - Monday February 3, 2003
Moderated by: Thurmond Moore III
Committed to carrying on the fine works started
by Hale Sweeny and Jerry Dewbre
Click a link below to post to the list:
for faceting questions  faceters@caprock-spur.com
for lapidary questions lapidary@caprock-spur.com
Index to Today's Digest

01  New:  advice wanted on grading & selling natural zircon rough
02  BIO: Rose Alene McArthur
03  garnet abrasive
04  Sapphires
05  Re: Solid Copper Lap Report
06  Re: Vibrasonic / 50 lb Viking, Advise needed


Subject: New:  advice wanted on grading & selling natural zircon rough
From: "Cheryl Weaver" <cheryl@winsoft.net.au>
To: "Lapidary Arts and Faceters Digest" <owner-faceters@caprock-spur.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:55:20 +1100

Hi Thurmond,

I have been lurking in the background for some time watching and
absorbing information posted which has been extremely enlightening to
someone as new to this hobby as I am ( 18mths). I almost bailed out when
you took over as I was shelled shocked by the posting by the previous
moderator but I can now honestly say I am pleased I stayed and watched. 
I do need some help and guidance and hope that you and other members
will be of assistance.
I have been fossicking in the Harts Ranges in Australia and will be
returning there soon and would like to start selling the result of my
labours I.e. good quality natural zircon rough for a fair price inorder
to finance my fossicking trips and the purchase of a faceting machine.
My questions are:-
1. What is the best way to grade and sell the rough to inorder to have
the widest appeal to  faceters?
2. With photos of the rough what would faceters like to be able to see
in the photos and what is the best way of taking the shots to ensure

Cheryl from down under in Australia


Hi Cheryl,  Glad you stuck it out with the list and that you enjoy the content.
Although I don't have the answers to your questions I am sure some of the
list members will.


Subject: BIO: Rose Alene McArthur
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:18:32 -0800
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Orville & Rose Alene" <obmcarthur@clearwater.net>

Hello, it is good to find you here.
My husband and I are retirees living in Central Idaho and members of the
Hell's Canyon Gem Club.  We have a lively interest in all the lapidary
arts, although we haven't tried them all yet.  Even when you have all
the equipment, time can be at a premium.  I started out rockhounding as
a girl and got in three years of college as a geology major before
raising six children pushed the rocks into the background for about
thirty-five years. Then we were in the San Francisco club for a while
before moving back to Idaho.  You could say, I have more head knowledge
than hands on experience, since we keep a file of articles on lapidary
related subjects from several different magazines going back into the
1960s, and sometimes the 1950s. We are looking forward to reading the
Take Care, Rose Alene McArthur


Hi Rose, Welcome.  Do  you have any kin in Texas?  My grandmother
was a McArthur.



Subject: garnet abrasive
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:23:29 -0800
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Orville & Rose Alene" <obmcarthur@clearwater.net>

At an auction, we ended up with four and a half sacks of garnet
abrasive.  This is a locally produced commercial product from Fernwood,
Idaho, the same general area that Idaho Star Garnets come from.  There
is not a grain size printed on the bag.  I guess I would describe it as
being about like coarse grained quartz sand.  Someone said that it is
used as a grit in tumblers.  Does anyone know the correct way to use it?
 Would it be put in as your only abrasive and put through several weeks
of tumbling and then go on to a pre polish, or what or what??
Thank You, Rose Alene McArthur


Subject: Sapphires
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:54:19 -0800
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: Bud Schroeder <bshmt@juno.com>

Hi Thurmond     This time I am not going to start something controversial.
We all have in our rough collections some flat crystals. The most are
sapphires.  I started by using a diagram of the crown of a oval.  Then I
tranfered and cut the same crown on the other side.After cutting the
second one . I mounted them in ear ring findings and made a pair of
dangles for my wife. I really started something. All the women want a
pair !! 
........... Bud Schroeder
            In the center of So, Cal.


Hi Bud,  Arn't they called "Tablets"?



Subject: Re: Solid Copper Lap Report
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 02:02:46 -0800
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: Phillip L Stonebrook <plstonebrook@juno.com>
Cc: sales@jewelersgems.com

Greetings list and Mike Lavergne...

I've just received your solid copper 8" lap, and after charging at 3K,
prepolished one pavilion on it. What a pleasure to use your 1/4" lap;
flat and true, which is really going to cut down on the wear and tear on
my polishing lap .. and at a good price too.

As I mentioned earlier, 2 of my Lapcraft "copper toppers" have
delaminated (reasons unknown, 1 of which was a replacement for the same
problem and only a few months old) which caused me fits to get good
meets, as well as some very unusual polishing gyrations. Well, I guess
I'll now salvage the "master lap" portion from these after a trip thru
the oven. 

In this commercial world, where mediocrity seems to be the norm rather
than the exception, it's a pleasant surprise to find a quality well
machined product. I'll be ordering more shortly (I really don't want to
charge the other side in a different grit).

Fellow (and fellow-ette) faceters - Just wanted to take the time to
spread the word on a good product; all the usual disclaimers. They can be
ordered at:


rather than the link shown in the advertising section of the LAFDigest,
which doesn't seem to work

Best regards......
Phil in Florida


Hi Phil and Mike.  I have been using the solid copper laps that Mike offers
since he first had them last year. I love them. I am heavy handed and as a
result have destroyed several nickel bonded laps. Copper does not have that
issue. Between copper, Redwing Batts and Batts I hardly use anything else
than an occasional blue spectra or ceramic.



Subject: Re: Vibrasonic / 50 lb Viking, Advise needed
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:14:16 EST
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: Send2mail@aol.com

Hello all

I have recently been trying to learn the tricks of the Vibratory tumbling
trade, with very little success.

I have a 50 pound hopper Viking machine..It is an open bowl, no center cone
hopper. Diamond Pacific sells these machines now, as they recently purchased
the company.. They have little knowledge of the 50 pound machine and it's
operations, so I am asking for some overall advise and especially help from
anyone who has actually used the 50 pound hopper to tumble with..

I am tumbling agates, both rough and flat slabs and I have the basics down
fairly well..... so the machine is doing its job... But on a scale of 1 to 10
of what I feel the machine should be performing at, as compared to the action
I have seen on other vibratory machines, including the mini sonics and
smaller vibrasonics, I feel the 50 pound hopper is doing only a 5 level of
performance....Just slow rotational movement and very little action in my
novice opinion..

Any advise as to grit carriers, media types, where to set the offset weights,

Currently am using angle cut ceramic media cylinders, "old miser" carrier and
have the weights set on 2.3 ..

Thanks for any bits of advise.




I do not have the model you do but I do use a 45 lb Raytec Adjustavibe.
I do not use any "media" only rock of sizes from 1/8" to 3". Also I have been
told that slabs ahould not be tumbled with non-slabs. I run mine at maximum vibration
levels. Also the load should be rinsed with water then only about a cup of water added.
Too much water will kill the action of the vibration. I rinse the load and replace the grit
every 12 hours with this one. It takes no more than 7 days from rough to polished product.
Any time I have a great deal of difficulty getting a final "mirror" polish with the "big one",
I break the load down to 4lbs in size and use my Lot-O-Tumbler for polish. I do this a
lot with Apache Tears but it is usually not necessary with materials as hard as agate.




Hale Sweeny's Lapidary Digest Archives http://www.lapidarydigest.com/
International Lapidary Association http://www.gemcutters.org
http://webdev.archive.org/ then enter www.liccini.com


Facetron: http://www.facetron.com/
Graves: http://www.rockhounds.com/graves/
MDR: http://www.mdr-facet.com/
Polymetric: http://www.polymetricinc.com/
Ultra-tec: http://www.ultratec-facet.com
Fac-Ette Manufacturing Company: (910)256-9248
http://www.fac-ette.com/ 800-336-9248.
Raytech Industries: http://www.raytech-ind.com
Rock Peddler: 1-800-416-4348 / www.rockpeddler.com



Accredited Gemologists Association, http://aga.polygon.net/
American Gem Society, (AGS) 702-255-6500
American Gem Trade Association, (AGTA) http://www.agta.org
Gemmological Assc. & GTL / Great Britain, http://www.gagtl.ac.uk/gagtl
Gemmological Association of Australia, http://www.gem.org.au
Gemological Institute of America, (GIA) http://www.gia.edu.giagem
International Gem Society (IGS) web site is: http://www.gemsociety.org
International Colored Gemstone Association, http://www.gemstone.org
My Gemologist http://www.mygemologist.com


FACETING GUILDS (Alphabetically, World) ~

*Charleston Faceting Guild, South Carolina, wmcnay@mindspring.com.
*Columbia-Willamette Faceter's Guild, http://www.facetersguild.com/
*Danish Faceters Guild, http://medlem.spray.se/danfacet/
*East/Central Florida:Tomoka Gem and Mineral Society's Faceters Guild,
Don Cameron: ghgemcutter@earthlink.net
*Eastern Mass Faceter's Group, rockpeddler@attbi.com
*Faceter's Forum Society-LaPorte, IN VESteele@aol.com
*Faceter's Guild of N. California, Wayne Meissner, lklomp@cnetech.com
*Faceter's Guild of S. California, Jerry W. Carroll, (818)348-6327
*Intermountain Faceter's Guild, Carl M. Unruh, (360)385-3753
*Midwest Faceter's Guild, Tyler Miller,  tmiller277@comcast.net
*Mid-Williamette Faceters Guild, Albany, Oregon, Michael E. Bumcrot;
E-mail @ MBumcrot@valleyoilco.com
*Moreton Bay is a branch of the Australian Facetors' Guild, Brisbane,
Queensland. http://cwpp.slq.qld.gov.au/afg
*New Mexico Faceter's Guild, Nancy Attaway, attaway@highfiber.com
*North Puget Sound Faceting Guild, Keith Wyman, tfw@fidalgo.net
*Tacoma Faceting Guild, Chuck Bloch chuck_b@prodigy.net
*Texas Faceter's Guild, Jill Rowlands, gemsbyj@aol.com
*Seattle Faceting Club (LeonardBahr@prodigy.net)
*United States Faceting Guild (Keith Wyman, tfw@fidalgo.net)
*Vancouver Island Faceters' Guild - British Columbia, Canada.

(Add your faceting organization here, US or International - Write to
( owner-lapidary@caprock-spur.com or owner-faceters@caprock-spur.com )



I have a Microsoft waiter
Patron: Waiter!

Waiter: Hi, my name is Bill, and I'll be your Support Waiter. What seems to be the problem?

Patron: There's a fly in my soup!

Waiter: Try again, maybe the fly won't be there this time.

Patron: No, it's still there.

Waiter: Maybe it's the way you're using the soup; try eating it with a fork instead.

Patron: Even when I use the fork, the fly is still there.

Waiter: Maybe the soup is incompatible with the bowl; what kind of bowl are you using?

Patron: A SOUP bowl!

Waiter: Hmmm, that should work. Maybe it's a configuration problem; how was the bowl set up?

Patron: You brought it to me on a saucer; what has that to do with the fly in my soup?!

Waiter: Can you remember everything you did before you noticed the fly in your soup?

Patron: I sat down and ordered the Soup of the Day!

Waiter: Have you considered upgrading to the latest Soup of the Day?

Patron: You have more than one Soup of the Day each day?

Waiter: Yes, the Soup of the Day is changed every hour.

Patron: Well, what is the Soup of the Day now?

Waiter: The current Soup of the Day is tomato.

Patron: Fine. Bring me the tomato soup, and the check. I'm running late now.

[Waiter leaves and returns with another bowl of soup and the check]

Waiter: Here you are, Sir. The soup and your check.

Patron: This is potato soup.

Waiter: Yes, the tomato soup wasn't ready yet.

Patron: Well, I'm so hungry now, I'll eat anything.

[The waiter leaves.]

Patron: Waiter! There's a gnat in my soup!

The check:
Soup of the Day . . . . . . . . . . $5.00
Upgrade to newer Soup of the Day. . $2.50
Access to support . . . . . . . . . $1.00



Found this great quote. I haven't confirmed it but the source is

"Fossils in the ground, wrapped in red tape, are worthless, and fossils
exposed in an outcrop will quickly be weathered and destroyed if not collected."
Stephen J. Gould



TUCSON           February 6 - February 11, 2003             TUCSON
LOWE  ASSOCIATES  -  Robert P. Lowe Jr. invites you to visit us in
Booth # 205 at the GJX - Gem & Jewelry Exchange, Downtown Tucson, for
TOURMALINES - in Greens, Pinks, Indicolite, Rubelite, Salmon, Yellow,
Silver, Orange, Purple, Bi-color, Tri-color, - sliced, faceted,
cabochons, Paraiba and Rough. TOURMALINES in Watermelon Slices,
Singles, Matched Pairs, Sets, Cabochon Slices, plus all the other
Brazilian Colored Stones, including - Aquamarine, Citrine, Blue Beryl,
Rutilated Quartz (Calibrated), Imperial Topaz, Alexandrite, Kunzite,
Brazilian Opals - Crystal & Boulder, rare Purple Topaz Specimens,
Amethyst, Morganite, Faceted Gemstone Beads, Emeralds - faceted,
cabochon, carved & Slices, Emerald Faceting Rough, Emerald Crystals,
Emerald Specimens, Emerald Jewelry - And Faceted Spessartite Garnet.
Rough - Dark Aquamarine, Amethyst, Citrine, Spessartite garnet,
Lowe  Associates  -  Robert P. Lowe Jr.
Rua do Mirante, 573
13801-100 Mogi Mirim, SP, Brasil
Telephone: 55-19-3862-4217
Telefax:   55-19-3806-4354
e-mail: < robertplowejr@juno.com > in USA
e-mail: < robertplowejr@uol.com.br > in Brazil


Rough to Cut
If you're looking for quality facet rough please check out Rough to Cut,
http://www.roughtocut.com. We offer a wide range of quality facet rough
from Aquamarine to Zircon. Large selections in stock currently of Beryl,
Garnets & Tourmalines. Please check us out & when you do, why not give a
try to our contest, you could win a 5ct + piece of Spessartite garnet
facet rough.

Rough to Cut


Subject: AD
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 20:50:44 -0800
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: "P. Miklik" <b-daw@pacbell.net>

Contact b-daw@pacbell.net

Honey, red & brown zircons, 10g parcels @$20/parcel

Red Garnet $8/g, eye clean-slightly included
Spessartine Garnet $7.50/g, slight-moderately included
Malaya Garnet $6/g, good eye clean roughs
Tunduri Garnet $10/g, eye clean-slightly included

Pink Tourmaline $20/g, eye clean-slightly included
Red Tourmaline $10/g, slight-moderately included
Bicolor Tourmaline $15/g, eye clean
Watermelon Tourmaline $20/g eye clean
Green/Green Blue Tourmaline $10/g, eye clean roughs

Blue, Green & Blue/Green Sapphires $35/g, eye clean-slightly         
included, up to 1g.

Blue Beryl (Aquamarine) $6/g, eye clean-slightly included crystals
Green Beryl (Emerald) $10-$50/g, eye clean-slightly included crystals,
zoned green
Cabbing Grade Aquamarine $3/g


Rock Peddler
Complete online discount catalog for cabbing and faceting machines, wheels,
laps, polishes, diamond saws, diamond blades, and general lapidary supplies
at http://www.rockpeddler.com.


Gewelers Gems
e-mail: sales@jewelersgems.com
Solid copper laps 1/4 thick 8" and 6"  you can charge both sides with
diamond. http://www.jewelersgems.com

NOW ONLINE!  RRGaetan Gem Rough - Featuring excellent, facet-grade,
Colombian Emerald rough! PLUS, Chrome Tourmaline, Achroite Tourmaline,
Golden Chrome Tourmaline, Aquamarine, Spess, Mint and Malaya Garnets,
and more! For photos and more information, visit us at rrgaetan.com.




For All National and International Masters, Past-Masters and
World-Class Cutters:

This post is simply a reminder that in 2003 the USFG will host its
first National and International Faceting Competition.  It is called
the North American Faceting  Challenge -- 'NAFC.'   Since the designs
and rules were first published in the 2001 September Issue of  the
USFG's Newsletter, and since they have not been published since 2001,
some of you, who are most capable - skill-wise, may not
know about the competition, and some of you may have forgotten.   The
"NAFC" is an OPEN Competition.   Please note:  The designs and rules
can be downloaded at  <http://www.usfacetersguild.org/events.shtml>.
The closing date is June 20th, 2003;  the amount of time between the
present date and June 20th, 2003 should be enough for all Master
cutters to cut the two required designs -- Fred Van Sant's "Four
Star," and Charles Covill's "Wind Wheel No. 2."   If   further
information is needed, please contact me at <clmoon@pacbell.net>.

Charlie Moon





  Presented by the Faceter's Guild of Southern California
    At the Seaside GEMboree AFMS/CFMS Convention & Show
           Ventura, California June 6-7-8, 2003

     You are invited to participate in the Faceters
Symposium 2003 which will be held at the Seaside Park
(Ventura Fairgrounds) at Ventura, California during the
AFMS/CFMS Convention & Show.  The Faceters Symposium dates
are June 6th, 7th, & 8th.  That is Friday, Saturday, &
Sunday.  The CFMS GEMboree is on those dates as well as on
Thursday the 5th of June.  All of this is at the same
location, just a hundred yards from the beach.

     The Faceters Symposium will feature ten speakers, who
will have presentations covering various parts of gemstone
faceting interests.  A Hospitality Hour on Friday evening
and a Saturday Awards Luncheon are also part of the
Symposium.  There will be competitions at the Novice,
Advanced, & Masters levels.  Get started on your
competition entry soon.

     The CFMS GEMboree itself will have buildings that have
exhibits on display, dealers with their wares to offer,
demonstrators to show how it is done, and speakers with
presentations covering other lapidary fields of interest.

     For information & costs regarding the Faceters
Symposium (including competition information), your contact
is listed below.  Ask for one of the Packets.  Be sure to
state your snail mailing address so that a Packet can be
mailed to you.

Glenn Klein, Chairman
24001 Muirlands Blvd., Space #79
Lake Forest, CA 92630        email:   glennklein@yahoo.com


Lubbock Gem and Mineral Society is proud to present it's
45th Annual Gem, Mineral, Fossil,& Jewelry Show.
WHEN: May 17-18, 2003
Where: Lubbock Civic Center, Lubbock, Texas
Time: Sat.5/17: 10am-6pm
          Sun.5/18: 10am-5pm
For more information contact Archie Scott
e-mail: asscott2@door.net
telephone: 806-894-1584       



KANSAS: If anyone in the central portion of the country from Oklahoma city
to Wichita to Kansas City would be interested in forming something like the
Flatland Facet Guild or some such name give me a line at
Larry W. Davis

ILLINOIS - MISSOURI (Central Area, hubed around St. Louis, Missouri) A
group of 4 faceters have met and we had a great time. We intend to meet
again and would like to have fellow faceters join our group. I received an
email from another Newbie that expressed interest in attending our next get
together. Faceters from any and all areas are welcome... It's swell to meet
personally and exchange tips and hints! COME JOIN OUR GROUP! It's FREE! ;o)
Doug Smith, Alton, IL .at: gembin@spiff.net

INDIANA: I moved to Valparaiso, (Northwest) Indiana, about three years ago.
Are there any clubs in this area? or is there anyone interested in starting
one? I do faceting and some cabbing. Not much here but cornfields. Nice
scenery, but I get sooooooo lonely. LOL Let me know. (Bill) "William
J.Pysnack" <wjpin@home.com>

S.E. LOUISIANA: Anyone in or around the New Orleans, LA area wishing to
form a club or have get togethers for faceting, discussions, cabbing,
procurement, etc. Please contact me via email @ tbird@bayouself.org. (Thom
Bird - Chalmette, LA)

MISSISSIPPI: If anyone is near Meridian Mississippi and would be interested
in forming some kind of club or just get together with faceting and/or
cabbing please e-mail me at jennings@netdoor.com Thanks, Jim

TEXAS: Anyone in the Corpus Christi or Coastal Bend area that is interested
in starting a local faceter's guild contact me at: hankswan@earthlink.net or
gemscc@msn.com or telephone 361-857-2405 (days) or 361-992-1296
(evenings).Hank swan

WASHINGTON DC.(Rockville Md area) Looking for folks to get together
occasionally to facet. I have just started faceting and am also interested
in sphere making (infinate # of facets) Robert Winfield

Lurking is fine, but participation is more fun!! Get involved!!


is produced by Thurmond Moore III

Tempie Francis, Attorney at Law / Legal Advisor


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