committed to carrying on the fine works started
by Hale Sweeny and Jerry Dewbre
Issue No.7 - Wednesday November 13, 2002
Click a link below to post to the list:
for faceting questions faceters@caprock-spur.com
for lapidary questions lapidary@caprock-spur.com
List Posting Guidelines and rules can be found at:
Web Site http://www.gemcutters.org
Archives: http://www.gemcutters.org/archives.htm
Published Monday thru Friday, except holidays
from Spur,Texas
The Lapidary Arts Digest is moderated by:
Thurmond Moore III & Fred Ward (Gemology)
Index to Today's Digest

Lapidary Messages:
01 Re: turquoise
02 Re: Cutting oils
03 Re: diamond heat sinks
04 Re: diamond heat sinks
05 Re: diamond heat sinks

Faceting Messages:
06 Re: princess cut
07 Re: princess cut
08 Re: princess cut
09 Re: Recutting Badly Cut Stones
10 Re: Recutting Badly Cut Stones
11 Critical Angles for Crowns ?
12 Wanted: Aquamarine and emerald rough at reasonable prices
13 Wanted: 30 x 22 oval cut red garnet or a piece of rough

Business Section -

No messages


Subject: turquoise
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 02:24:08 -0700
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "jake" <efjke@msn.com>

On reply about turquoise, to John McLaughlin and all-

Dear Sir;

Sorry to hear about that experience with Bad Boys of Cripple Creek's
turquoise. I am glad that I worded the letter carefully and said I had no
experience with them, but perhaps someone else did. I was surprised at this
(see the below cut and pastes from correspondence).

"At present we have a nice selection of both blue and green in various
The price of the rough depends on the size, starting with $100 per pound for
chips up to $800 per pound for specimens. Most craftsmen want the
$250-300/pound size which is about 1-1/2 to 2" in size. We do not have a
minimum order and we do accept Visa, Mastercard and American Express."

"You certainly may order 1/2 lb of blue, but we will need to know what size
need. If you are going to use it in jewelry, most of our jewelers use the
$250-300/lb. size, so you would be looking at $125-150.00 for a 1/2 lb."

This was all that I knew and I did say that I had never seen any.

I do not know what their return policy is, but if someone doesn't have a
reasonable one I would say don't do business with them (even priests can't
always be trusted etc.). I thought this might be worth looking into, but am
very sorry if I led any astray.

I would say that for smaller amounts of nice material (or parcels in some
cases) you could try Jef Graham, http://www.cabbers.com/index.shtml . You
can try Morenci Stone Works, but the price on that has went up and they
indicate they want you to buy 2 lbs.

Right now you can buy some Chinese turquoise from Firemountain Gems
http://www.firemountaingems.com/shopping.asp (type "rough" in the search
box) it is 230 grams $89. This is up sharply from a short while back; I
bought a little over a kilogram, at 260+ grams/parcel for $48 each ($192). I
was mostly happy with this (especially considering the price) and got some
very pretty pieces out of some of this. Sleeping Beauty will not give you a
break without a tax number, (1 lb. Minimum) but it dose sell by the ounce.
Others sell this at about the same ounce price.

I will not say other suppliers that look vary interesting because I do not
know their turquoise. Sometimes you can get a reasonable price on smaller
amounts from a rock shop you may know (such as 25-50 cents a gram because I
have talked to them). If you belong to a club or class you may find the best
deal of all sometimes from members etc. (It pays to ask questions. I know
someone I will see in March at a show that has something I will certainly
get. They have very nice Fox Turquoise at a better price than the above and
I have seen it, they are not in busines.) Shows are also sometimes good;
sometimes venders will give the break. Shop around, spend time on it, and
always be open, with good caution. I hope this may help someone.


Subject: Cutting Oils
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:43:34 -0500 (EST)
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: dojac@webtv.net (Jack Denne)

"Keith" in New Zealand mentioned degreasing slabs from saw cutting in
buckets of detergent. My mentor Bill Harris in Sarasota suggested using
"Kitty Litter" in a pail. Worked for me for years.
Also I wonder if the hard opal might be the facet grade opal from
New Mexico? or Arizona?


Subject: Diamond heat sinks
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:56:34 -0500
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: Fred Ward <fward@erols.com>

Patty asked about diamond heat sinks.

Look in the "Synthetics" section of my book DIAMONDS and you will find both a short
discussion of diamond heat sinks as well as pictures of a couple of examples of computer
chips resting on synthetic diamonds.

The reason for diamond heat sinks is that diamonds transfer heat better than any other
material on earth. Given that capability, it was a short step for our space program and
the military to look for ways to keep chips cool and operational in terrible environments.

The first uses were with industrial grade naturals. Relatively large synthetic diamonds
opened up a whole new world of possibilities. And then the latest craze, carbon vapor
deposit (CVD) diamonds allow the manufacture of heat sinks in almost any size and shape.

If you think back to the birth of really fast computers, the early Cray Supercomputers had
their main electronics bathed in clean icy recirculating water. Great solution for the
day; totally impractical now. Because diamond heat sinks can be made in any shape or
thickness, they are designed specifically for individual chips. It's a great use for
diamonds and a wonderful trouble-free heat removal device for a huge variety of needs.

Fred Ward GG
Gem Book Publishers


Subject: diamond heat sinks
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:23:52 -0700
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: "Allan Beck" <agemcutter@earthlink.net>

I remember the big splash when a Japanese firm let out,
several years ago, that they made 5+ carat single diamond
crystals for power transistor heat sinks and other such
uses. Pictures showed slabs of deep yellow diamond.
Problem in recovering used devices for a diamond is that
they mentioned military use in high-heat situations.


Subject: diamond heat sinks
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:35:42 -0800
To: lapidary@caprock-spur.com
From: "Robert Giesbrecht" <robgies@hotmail.com>

A major use for synthetic diamond slabs is to remove heat from laser diodes
used in the telecom industry. The awesome thermal conductivity five times
greater than copper and electrical insulating properties of synthetic
diamond make them especially useful in electronics and physics.
While at University we had a talk from an engineer at MPR
Telecommunications. He told us that the lasers were as small as a grain of
salt and sat atop a diamond and were housed inside a gold box. He joked that
his boss thought they were opening a jewelry store.
Robert Giesbrecht
B.C. Faceters Guild



Subject: Re: Issue No.6 - Tuesday November 12, 2002
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:04:49 EST
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: Ngems@aol.com

Michael and Linda Lauer - check out Jeff Graham's website. (faceters.com). He
has a dowloadable cutting diagram for the "Gram Princess." I've cut it
several times and it make a great looking stone.
Norm Holbert
Port St.Lucie, FL



Subject: Princess cut.
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:32:02 -0800
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: Galand and Tom Nuchols <nucholsg@1Starnet.com>

Does anybody have a diagram for cutting a Princes Cut stone? My wife saw
one in a jewelry store and would like one cut for herself.

Ernie Hawes published a copy of his interpretation of the Princes cut in the New Mexico faceting
Guild Newletter. I have done the cut and it is nice. There is also a Princes look alike in Data
View under square stones. It also cuts a nice chevron cut pavilion and makes a nice stone.
There is at least one more variation of the cut out there that also make a nice stone, but my
sometime remembering does not recall the name or where I found it.

Tom Nuchols



Subject: princess cut?
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:32:14 -0700
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: "Allan Beck" <agemcutter@earthlink.net>

I noticed a couple different variations for the princes cut
at Jeff Gram's web site : "http://www.faceters.com/

Allan in Idaho


Subject: Recutting stones
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:08:14 -0600
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Wayne S. Barnett" <wayneb@ev1.net>

The comments made on recutting poorly cut stones was interesting. Most of
these stones I suspect are less than one carot in weight. Many may be much
less. If so, recutting these stones makes no economic sense. Unless there
is a special project for the recut stones or they are so bad that they
cannot be used as-is, it is usually not worth your time to recut. Of course
this is only my opinion. By-in-large I do not cut many stones smaller than
3 carots. If I have a special request I may recut a native cut stone, but I
do not do the small ones. They are just not worth the time. If we try to
correct all the bad cutting that come our way we will not have time to cut
stones from the beginning correctly.

Some native cut stones can make good preforms though. Larger stones can be
purchased in some cases at carot prices that are competitive to the prices
of rough. This is especially true if the amount of loss is considered. At
some of the shows I have seen cut stones actually priced lower than the
rough that it would require to cut a similar stone of the same size. It is
difficult to compete in that market.

Keep up the grind.



Subject: re: Recutting Badly Cut Stones
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:32:29 -0800
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Steven W. De Long" <sdelong@san.rr.com>


I caught Jerry's post regarding the skill involved in recutting native cut
stones and being able to have it make sense from a financial standpoint.
It was interesting because I just read an article from the July 1990 issue
of Lapidary Journal regarding recutting native cut stones.

A trick the author used to find the original angles of the native cut stones
was to paint the facet with correcting fluid whiteout and then gently
rub it against a ceramic lap covered with graphite (a trick often used to
lubricate a ceramic lap).

It seems to me a lot of the work involved is just figuring out what has
already been done to the stone (which could be pretty difficult considering
you could have facets placed at a variety of angles but still adding up to a
standard shape) before you can even begin to access what to do to correct

I personally would like to be accomplished enough someday to consider myself
a lapidary but I'm not particularly interested in re-cutting or repairing
stones for a profit. I might be interested in it from the viewpoint of
expanding my skills or for acquiring certain materials/qualities that a
difficult to find in the rough and re-cutting them for myself but
I wonder if Jerry's points regarding the risks apply to damaged stones.
It seems to me that their might be a source for damaged stones that could be
purchased at a discount and re-cut at a profit.
A jewelry I dealt with a few months back (selling my first opals a very
interesting experience) suggested I could make a killing buying damaged
stones in bulk ard repairing them (he had no idea how long it takes me to
cut just one stone).

I like to know if that's a plausible idea.


San Diego



Subject: Critical Angles for Crowns
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:33:36 -0800
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Steven W. De Long" <sdelong@san.rr.com>

Does anyone know if there is such a thing as a critical angle for crowns?




Subject: Aquamarine and emerald rough at reasonable prices
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:13:47 +1300
To: <lapidary@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Brian Clifford" <pesty@paradise.net.nz>

Can anyone help me with a supplier for facet grade rough , blue
aquamarine, and emerald.
Brian Clifford
New Zealand



Subject: Re: Issue No.6 - Tuesday November 12, 2002
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:34:02 EST
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: Clabe@aol.com

Needed a large 30 x 22 oval cut red garnet or a piece of rough to cut it.
Email at Clabe@aol.com


Hale Sweeny's Lapidary Digest Archives http://www.lapidarydigest.com/
International Lapidary Association http://www.gemcutters.org


Facetron: http://www.facetron.com/
Graves: http://www.rockhounds.com/graves/
MDR: http://www.mdr-facet.com/
Polymetric: http://www.polymetricinc.com/
Ultra-tec: http://www.ultratec-facet.com
Fac-Ette Manufacturing Company: (910)256-9248
http://www.fac-ette.com/ 800-336-9248.
Raytech Industries: http://www.raytech-ind.com
Rock Peddler: 1-800-416-4348 / www.rockpeddler.com



Accredited Gemologists Association, http://aga.polygon.net/
American Gem Society, (AGS) 702-255-6500
American Gem Trade Association, (AGTA) http://www.agta.org
Gemmological Assc. & GTL / Great Britain, http://www.gagtl.ac.uk/gagtl
Gemmological Association of Australia, http://www.gem.org.au
Gemological Institute of America, (GIA) http://www.gia.edu.giagem
International Gem Society (IGS) web site is: http://www.gemsociety.org
International Colored Gemstone Association, http://www.gemstone.org


FACETING GUILDS (Alphabetically, World) ~

*Charleston Faceting Guild, South Carolina, wmcnay@mindspring.com.
*Columbia-Willamette Faceter's Guild, http://www.facetersguild.com/
*Danish Faceters Guild, http://medlem.spray.se/danfacet/
*East/Central Florida:Tomoka Gem and Mineral Society's Faceters Guild,
Don Cameron: ghgemcutter@earthlink.net
*Eastern Mass Faceter's Group, rockpeddler@attbi.com
*Faceter's Forum Society-LaPorte, IN VESteele@aol.com
*Faceter's Guild of N. California, Wayne Meissner, lklomp@cnetech.com
*Faceter's Guild of S. California, Jerry W. Carroll, (818)348-6327
*Intermountain Faceter's Guild, Carl M. Unruh, (360)385-3753
*Midwest Faceter's Guild, E-mail: tgibbs@compuserve.com
*Mid-Williamette Faceters Guild, Albany, Oregon, Michael E. Bumcrot;
E-mail @ MBumcrot@valleyoilco.com
*Moreton Bay is a branch of the Australian Facetors' Guild, Brisbane,
Queensland. http://cwpp.slq.qld.gov.au/afg
*New Mexico Faceter's Guild, Nancy Attaway, attaway@highfiber.com
*North Puget Sound Faceting Guild, Keith Wyman, tfw@fidalgo.net
*Tacoma Faceting Guild, Chuck Bloch chuck_b@prodigy.net
*Texas Faceter's Guild, Jill Rowlands, gemsbyj@aol.com
*Seattle Faceting Club (LeonardBahr@prodigy.net)
*United States Faceting Guild (Keith Wyman, tfw@fidalgo.net)
*Vancouver Island Faceters' Guild - British Columbia, Canada.

(Add your faceting organization here, US or International - Write to
( owner-lapidary@caprock-spur.com or owner-faceters@caprock-spur.com )



A little old woman calling Mt Sinai Hospital says, "Hello darling.
I'd like to talk to the person who
gives information regarding your patients. I want to know if the
patient is getting better, or doing like
expected, or is getting worse."

Do you know the patient's name and room number ?"

"Yes, darling. She is Sarah Finkle in room 302."

"Oh yes. Mrs. Finkle is doing very well. In fact, she's had 2 full
meals, blood pressure is fine, blood
work is normal and she's going to be taken off the heart monitor in a
few hours and if she continues to
improve Dr. Cohen will send her home Tuesday afternoon."

"Thank God! That's wonderful! That's fantastic news, darling!"

"From your enthusiasm I take it you must be a close family member
or close friend."

"I am Sarah Finkle in room 302 AND Dr. Cohen doesn't tell me



" Never regret a day in your life.
Good days give you experience,
But both are essential to life.
All are God's blessing."

--- Author Unknown ---


Facet polishing laps
Still have a couple of dozen Vargas Pol-A-Gem laps left. Only Cerium Oxide
in 6" size. There will be no more 8". Glenn really is not interested in
fiddling with his lathe to correct his maching problems at 8". He and his
protoge, Dick Rugel, will make more 6" if there is demand. There is nothing
faster,better or more durable than a Pol-A-Gem for quartz,sunstone, opal etc.
One lap should last a lifetime ....and they DO NOT SCRATCH. They also work
great on 8" machines. Lemme know your interest. Price delivered in US is
Jerry Newman Gemart Services gemartserv@aol.com


Subject: AD
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 20:50:44 -0800
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: "P. Miklik" <b-daw@pacbell.net>

Contact b-daw@pacbell.net

Honey, red & brown zircons, 10g parcels @$20/parcel

Red Garnet $8/g, eye clean-slightly included
Spessartine Garnet $7.50/g, slight-moderately included
Malaya Garnet $6/g, good eye clean roughs
Tunduri Garnet $10/g, eye clean-slightly included

Pink Tourmaline $20/g, eye clean-slightly included
Red Tourmaline $10/g, slight-moderately included
Bicolor Tourmaline $15/g, eye clean
Watermelon Tourmaline $20/g eye clean
Green/Green Blue Tourmaline $10/g, eye clean roughs

Blue, Green & Blue/Green Sapphires $35/g, eye clean-slightly
included, up to 1g.

Blue Beryl (Aquamarine) $6/g, eye clean-slightly included crystals
Green Beryl (Emerald) $10-$50/g, eye clean-slightly included crystals,
zoned green
Cabbing Grade Aquamarine $3/g


Must sell the following rough - no reasonable offer refused -

Rose Malaya Garnet - deep red, eye clean african material - 1 kg available -
$2.00/gram for quantities of 500 grams or more

Red Zircon - eye clean african material - 300g available - $2.00/gram if you
take the entire 300 grams

Spessartite Orange Garnet - slightly to moderately included African
material - Ranges from 1.5 - 3 cts size - $7.50 per gram if you take the
entire 300 grams

I have put pictures of the rough and stones cut from it on the web -
check it out at: http://www.wintershill.com/rough

You can email me (Richard) for more info or ?'s at: wntrhill@somtel.com

Rock Peddler
Complete online discount catalog for cabbing and faceting machines, wheels,
laps, polishes, diamond saws, diamond blades, and general lapidary supplies
at http://www.rockpeddler.com.


Gewelers Gems
e-mail: sales@jewelersgems.com
Solid copper laps 1/4 thick 8" and 6" you can charge both sides with
diamond. http://www.jewelersgems.com/faceting_laps.htm


RRGaetan GEM BROKERS < "Quality gem rough for discriminating gem-cutters."
We serve hand-select (and bulk/parcels, too!), affordable, quality gem rough
in a variety of materials. Our most recent arrivals: Aug. 2 ­ Aquamarine,
Spessartite and Tourmaline. For details and a colorful, interactive e-flyer
(PDF), email rrgaetan@san.rr.com and ask for "The Rough List."




For All National and International Masters, Past-Masters and
World-Class Cutters:

This post is simply a reminder that in 2003 the USFG will host its
first National and International Faceting Competition. It is called
the North American Faceting Challenge -- 'NAFC.' Since the designs
and rules were first published in the 2001 September Issue of the
USFG's Newsletter, and since they have not been published since 2001,
some of you, who are most capable - skill-wise, may not
know about the competition, and some of you may have forgotten. The
"NAFC" is an OPEN Competition. Please note: The designs and rules
can be downloaded at <http://www.usfacetersguild.org/events.shtml>.
The closing date is June 20th, 2003; the amount of time between the
present date and June 20th, 2003 should be enough for all Master
cutters to cut the two required designs -- Fred Van Sant's "Four
Star," and Charles Covill's "Wind Wheel No. 2." If further
information is needed, please contact me at <clmoon@pacbell.net>.

Charlie Moon




Just a reminder that the St. Lucie Rock & Gem Club will be hosting their 25th
annual show at the Ft. Pierce Civic Center (25th St. & Virginia Ave.), on
November 9th & 10th. Saturday 10-6, and Sunday 10 - 5.
I'll be demonstrating both days.
Norm Holbert
Port St. Lucie, FL


Canaveral Mineral & Gem Society is again presenting
our yearly gem show, the Parade of Gems, November 23rd and 24th at the
Melbourne auditorium, 625 E Hibiscus Blvd in Melbourne, FL, from 10AM to
6PM. Admission is $3, with kids under 12 admitted free.


Tomoka Gem and Mineral Society's annual show will be held on Dec. 14 and 15 at
the Volusia County Fairgrounds, located on state route 44 in Deland, Florida.
Fairgrounds are 1 mile east of interstate route 4 at exit 118. We will have at
least one showcase of faceted gems done by our members. Thank you, John Withey



Presented by the Faceter's Guild of Southern California
At the Seaside GEMboree AFMS/CFMS Convention & Show
Ventura, California June 6-7-8, 2003

You are invited to participate in the Faceters
Symposium 2003 which will be held at the Seaside Park
(Ventura Fairgrounds) at Ventura, California during the
AFMS/CFMS Convention & Show. The Faceters Symposium dates
are June 6th, 7th, & 8th. That is Friday, Saturday, &
Sunday. The CFMS GEMboree is on those dates as well as on
Thursday the 5th of June. All of this is at the same
location, just a hundred yards from the beach.

The Faceters Symposium will feature ten speakers, who
will have presentations covering various parts of gemstone
faceting interests. A Hospitality Hour on Friday evening
and a Saturday Awards Luncheon are also part of the
Symposium. There will be competitions at the Novice,
Advanced, & Masters levels. Get started on your
competition entry soon.

The CFMS GEMboree itself will have buildings that have
exhibits on display, dealers with their wares to offer,
demonstrators to show how it is done, and speakers with
presentations covering other lapidary fields of interest.

For information & costs regarding the Faceters
Symposium (including competition information), your contact
is listed below. Ask for one of the Packets. Be sure to
state your snail mailing address so that a Packet can be
mailed to you.

Glenn Klein, Chairman
24001 Muirlands Blvd., Space #79
Lake Forest, CA 92630 email: glennklein@yahoo.com


Roanoke Valley Mineral & Gem Society - 22nd Annual Show at the
Salem Civic Center, Salem, VA 11/29-12/1/02. Thanks,Larry White



KANSAS: If anyone in the central portion of the country from Oklahoma city
to Wichita to Kansas City would be interested in forming something like the
Flatland Facet Guild or some such name give me a line at
Larry W. Davis

ILLINOIS - MISSOURI (Central Area, hubed around St. Louis, Missouri) A
group of 4 faceters have met and we had a great time. We intend to meet
again and would like to have fellow faceters join our group. I received an
email from another Newbie that expressed interest in attending our next get
together. Faceters from any and all areas are welcome... It's swell to meet
personally and exchange tips and hints! COME JOIN OUR GROUP! It's FREE! ;o)
Doug Smith, Alton, IL .at: gembin@spiff.net

INDIANA: I moved to Valparaiso, (Northwest) Indiana, about three years ago.
Are there any clubs in this area? or is there anyone interested in starting
one? I do faceting and some cabbing. Not much here but cornfields. Nice
scenery, but I get sooooooo lonely. LOL Let me know. (Bill) "William
J.Pysnack" <wjpin@home.com>

S.E. LOUISIANA: Anyone in or around the New Orleans, LA area wishing to
form a club or have get togethers for faceting, discussions, cabbing,
procurement, etc. Please contact me via email @ tbird@bayouself.org. (Thom
Bird - Chalmette, LA)

MISSISSIPPI: If anyone is near Meridian Mississippi and would be interested
in forming some kind of club or just get together with faceting and/or
cabbing please e-mail me at jennings@netdoor.com Thanks, Jim

TEXAS: Anyone in the Corpus Christi or Coastal Bend area that is interested
in starting a local faceter's guild contact me at: hankswan@earthlink.net or
gemscc@msn.com or telephone 361-857-2405 (days) or 361-992-1296
(evenings).Hank swan

WASHINGTON DC.(Rockville Md area) Looking for folks to get together
occasionally to facet. I have just started faceting and am also interested
in sphere making (infinate # of facets) Robert Winfield

Lurking is fine, but participation is more fun!! Get involved!!


Thurmond Moore III/ Moderator

Fred Ward / Moderator - Gemology

Tempie Francis, Attorney at Law / Legal Advisor


The LAPIDARY ARTS and FACETERS DIGEST is never sent unsolicited.
You are receiving it because you subscribed to it at our digest subscription page at:


To unsubscribe, just use the link below and follow the instructions there:


List Policy: http://www.gemcutters.org/rules.htm
Share your love of lapidary with a friend!