Vol. 2, Issue No. 153 - Monday October 7, 2002
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Published Monday thru Friday, except holidays
from deep in the heart of rural Texas
The IFA Faceter's Digest is professionally moderated by:
Thurmond Moore III & Fred Ward (Gemology)


"Making the world sparkle, one stone at a time."

Index to Today's Digest


01 "high end" stones
02 Lab Reports
03 Grading vs Appraisal
05 GemCad for Windows (update available)



Subject: "high end" stones
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:13:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: Dave Thompson <djt@irastro.caltech.edu>

OK, Paul, I gotta ask...what would you consider a "high
end" stone, in terms of value or carat weight or ???

Dave (Pasadena, CA)



Subject: Lab Reports
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 15:37:25 -0400
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: Fred Ward <fward@erols.com>

Paul asked if I would comment on lab reports (certs).

The whole concept of adding another layer of costs and involvement has been controversial
from the beginning. That labs are not standardized drives some folks crazy.

Here are some of the views from all sides:

You can't sell a medium-to-large quality diamond today without a lab report.

The only three labs whose reports are usually accepted by almost everyone are GIA, AGTA,
and the Gübelin lab in Switzerland. There are many other labs. Some are reliable and
trustworthy (such as the Italian one). But if you want to sell a $30,000 up gemstone,
you'd better have one of the top 3 lab reports or you'll probably be asked to buy another

What you're really buying with a report is the assurance that the stone and its color and
quality are what you say they are. The lab report is your insurance policy. If anything
bad happens, having a good lab report will be your proof of what you sold. If you're
buying, you get the same assurance.

Lab Reports from the big labs do not have dollar values. But an appraiser will happily
accept a solid lab report and proceed from there without having to reinvent the wheel and
examine and confirm the attributes of the stone. It's a time and money saver.

You get a lot of solid usable information in a diamond report. Colored stone reports are
much weaker to the point that some are almost useless. To pay someone to sell you in print
that you have a blue sapphire is not worth much. If it's a big beautiful blue sapphire it
will be useful for a seller to be able to provide a report that says it's unheated,
natural color, not diffused, etc.

Some labs will provide truncated reports with just a few items for less money.

Because lab reports are now a way of life not only in the USA but increasingly around the
world, the best solution is to learn how to use them to help you.

Do labs grading the same stone produce the same results. No!

Does the same lab grade the same stone the same every time it sees it. No!

Do people shop labs? Yes. You bet. Once I was searching for a $10 million unnamed diamond
for a museum and a stone I really liked had lab reports from three different labs. Only
the one with the highest grade was ever used. Dealers with pinkish-orange sapphires always
want a report that it's a Padh. So they will send it around the world until some lab
somewhere declares that the sapphire is a Padh. That's the report that will then be used.
One Asian lab used to be well-known for calling every off-pink or off-orange sapphire a
Padh. Soon such paper is worthless and the lab has to stop doing it.

Fred Ward GG
Gem Book Publishers



Subject: Re: Vol. 2, Issue No. 152 - Friday October 4, 2002
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 17:57:58 -0700
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: Don Rogers <Don@Campbell-gemstones.com>

At 01:45 PM 10/4/02 -0500, you wrote:
>In regards to Don's opal. Paul Downing wrote a book on opals a few years
>back that has been incorporated into the guide as the standard for
>appraising opals

Dave, Paul Downing book is on "Grading" and opal, not "Apprising" These
are two vastly different disciplines. The former is an attempt to place a
relative value (not money) on the stone. IE is it a 10 or a 1, or is it
an Extra Fine vs low commercial. The later is an attempt to place a hard
dollar amount on the stone and depending on the purpose of the appraisal.

In reference to Downing's reference stones, my opinion on the reference
stones set and his book, is not very high. I by the way own both. Using
his system, you can easily grade a stone as 8 or 9, when is face the market
would rate it at a 3 or 4. In other words, not very useful for either of
the above purposes.

Putting a price on a colored stone is always a challenge. There are two
many variables involved. Putting a price on an opal is even more
challenge. In all cases though, the value of a stone at a point in time is
what a willing seller would sell it for to a willing buyer. The opal I was
referring to in my previous post happened to be worth $5,000 at the point
of time I sold it. My point is, in todays market, it could be worth
$10,000 or $50.00. It depends on the market, peoples taste, the political
environment, a lot of things. Just get a history of Tanzanite prices to
see the effect of the above.

One last point. I have a Graduate Colored Stones diploma from the GIA. I
didn't do the Diamonds classes so I can't claim to be a Graduate
Gemologist. I didn't go for a diploma, but I took the classes for an
education. I received good value for the money and time I spent. I resent
being titled a "Generally Incompetent --------. I will let you fill in the
blanks" graduate.

Don Rogers GIA Graduate Colored Stones, and 10 years experience as an opal
wholesaler, and colored stone dealer)



Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 15:51:04 +1000
To: "I.F.A. Posting" <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Don Macdonald" <donmac@ezweb.com.au>

Hi Robert and other members
I am trying to print out the users guide and have not had any problems
getting the guide on screen and printing. But although the text continuity
is correct from page to page, some of the diagrams will only be partially
..I expect that this is because the Left, Right, Top and Bottom margins need
to be spot on. When I first went to FILE---PRINT and then PAGE SETUP the
Margins displayed were 19.05mm for all four margins and I believed that
these must be the Default for this printing. But apparently not. I have
tried other margins that move things around but have not been able to get
the required results.
I would appreciate any information that members have in answer to my
Regards from
Don in Australia



Subject: GemCad for Windows
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 12:40:13 -0500
To: "IFA Faceters Digest Post" <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Robert Strickland" <robstr@sbcglobal.net>

Version 1.02 of GemCad for Windows is now available on my website,
www.gemcad.com. If you don't know which version you have now, do
Help/About. Version 1.02:

o Fixes the tangent ratio bug in the Cutting Instructions View.
o Fixes the "vanishing User's Guide" bug in Help/Contents.
o Fixes bugs opening and saving ASC files.
o Allows you to cut facets in the bottom veiw.
o Adds L/W and R.I. to Status Bar.
o Full-screen crosshairs: C key.
o A and I key shortcuts to angle and index.
o D key shortcut to refresh/erase rays.
o Displays the dots in the center of the views like the DOS
version (but these get hidden by the stone).

The home page also has a new link to the printer-friendly PDF version
of the User's Guide.

Robert Strickland



Bombay Bazaar - (800)678-8450
Facetron: http://www.facetron.com/
Graves: http://www.rockhounds.com/graves/
MDR: http://www.mdr-facet.com/
Polymetric: http://www.polymetricinc.com/
Ultra-tec: info@ultratec-facet.com
Fac-Ette Manufacturing Company: (910)256-9248
http://www.fac-ette.com/ 800-336-9248.
Raytech Industries: http://www.raytech-ind.com
Rock Peddler: 1-800-416-4348 / www.rockpeddler.com



Accredited Gemologists Association, http://aga.polygon.net/
American Gem Society, (AGS) 702-255-6500
American Gem Trade Association, (AGTA) http://www.agta.org
Gemmological Assc. & GTL / Great Britain, http://www.gagtl.ac.uk/gagtl
Gemmological Association of Australia, http://www.gem.org.au
Gemological Institute of America, (GIA) http://www.gia.edu.giagem
International Gem Society (IGS) web site is: http://www.gemsociety.org
International Colored Gemstone Association, http://www.gemstone.org


FACETING GUILDS (Alphabetically, World) ~

*Charleston Faceting Guild, South Carolina, wmcnay@mindspring.com.
*Columbia-Willamette Faceter's Guild, http://www.facetersguild.com/
*Danish Faceters Guild, http://medlem.spray.se/danfacet/
*East/Central Florida:Tomoka Gem and Mineral Society's Faceters Guild,
Don Cameron: ghgemcutter@earthlink.net
*Eastern Mass Faceter's Group, rockpeddler@attbi.com
*Faceter's Forum Society-LaPorte, IN VESteele@aol.com
*Faceter's Guild of N. California, Wayne Meissner, lklomp@cnetech.com
*Faceter's Guild of S. California, Jerry W. Carroll, (818)348-6327
*Intermountain Faceter's Guild, Carl M. Unruh, (360)385-3753
*Midwest Faceter's Guild, E-mail: tgibbs@compuserve.com
*Mid-Williamette Faceters Guild, Albany, Oregon, Michael E. Bumcrot;
E-mail @ MBumcrot@valleyoilco.com
*Moreton Bay is a branch of the Australian Facetors' Guild, Brisbane,
Queensland. http://cwpp.slq.qld.gov.au/afg
*New Mexico Faceter's Guild, Nancy Attaway, attaway@highfiber.com
*North Puget Sound Faceting Guild, Keith Wyman, tfw@fidalgo.net
*Tacoma Faceting Guild, Chuck Bloch chuck_b@prodigy.net
*Texas Faceter's Guild, Jill Rowlands, gemsbyj@aol.com
*Seattle Faceting Club (LeonardBahr@prodigy.net)
*Vancouver Island Faceters' Guild - British Columbia, Canada.

(Add your faceting organization here, US or International - Write to
owner-faceters@caprock-spur.com )



IFA Faceter's Digest Virtual Faceting Class:

IFA Faceter's Digest Member's Showcase:

IFA Faceter's Digest Gemcad Page:

IFA Faceter's Digest Promotion Page:

IFA Faceter's Digest Microscope Lab:

IFA Faceter's Digest Home

IFA Faceter's Digest Temporary Discussion Page:




Tomoka Gem and Mineral Society's annual show will be held on Dec. 14 and 15 at
the Volusia County Fairgrounds, located on state route 44 in Deland, Florida.
Fairgrounds are 1 mile east of interstate route 4 at exit 118. We will have at
least one showcase of faceted gems done by our members. Thank you, John Withey


for Prizes!!



Sep 28-29 Downey. 52nd annual Delvers Gem& Mineral Soc. Women's Club
of Downey, 9813 Paramount Blvd. Free admission. Facet rough available
will include Benitoite, sapphires from Montana, Australia and southeast Asia,
blue and colorless topaz, 4Peaks amethyst,several citrines, ametrine,
sunstone, tourmaline and much more. Vargas books and laps also available.


Presented by the Faceter's Guild of Southern California
At the Seaside GEMboree AFMS/CFMS Convention & Show
Ventura, California June 6-7-8, 2003

You are invited to participate in the Faceters
Symposium 2003 which will be held at the Seaside Park
(Ventura Fairgrounds) at Ventura, California during the
AFMS/CFMS Convention & Show. The Faceters Symposium dates
are June 6th, 7th, & 8th. That is Friday, Saturday, &
Sunday. The CFMS GEMboree is on those dates as well as on
Thursday the 5th of June. All of this is at the same
location, just a hundred yards from the beach.

The Faceters Symposium will feature ten speakers, who
will have presentations covering various parts of gemstone
faceting interests. A Hospitality Hour on Friday evening
and a Saturday Awards Luncheon are also part of the
Symposium. There will be competitions at the Novice,
Advanced, & Masters levels. Get started on your
competition entry soon.

The CFMS GEMboree itself will have buildings that have
exhibits on display, dealers with their wares to offer,
demonstrators to show how it is done, and speakers with
presentations covering other lapidary fields of interest.

For information & costs regarding the Faceters
Symposium (including competition information), your contact
is listed below. Ask for one of the Packets. Be sure to
state your snail mailing address so that a Packet can be
mailed to you.

Glenn Klein, Chairman
24001 Muirlands Blvd., Space #79
Lake Forest, CA 92630 email: glennklein@yahoo.com



Headlines: Year 2025

1. Florida is finally readmitted to the union.
2. Spotted Owl plague now threatens Western crops & livestock.
3. George Z. Bush says he will run for President.
4. 50 year study: diet and exercise is the key to weight loss.
5. Nursing home event--Clinton denies Candy Striper allegations.
6. Texas executes last remaining citizen.
7. Upcoming NFL draft likely to focus on use of mutants.
8. Baby conceived naturally..... Scientists stumped.
9. Ozone created by electric cars now killing thousands in Los Angeles.
10. Average height of NBA players now nine foot seven inches.
11. Unionized Chinese workers now making 4,000,000,000 yen an
hour. American owned businesses now returning to cheap labor in USA.
12. New California law requires that all machetes, steak knives and baseball
bats be registered before January 2026.



" If you depend on others to make you happy,
You'll be endlessly disappointed."

--- Author Unknown ---



Must sell the following rough - no reasonable offer refused -

Rose Malaya Garnet - deep red, eye clean african material - 1 kg available -
$2.00/gram for quantities of 500 grams or more

Red Zircon - eye clean african material - 300g available - $2.00/gram if you
take the entire 300 grams

Spessartite Orange Garnet - slightly to moderately included African
material - Ranges from 1.5 - 3 cts size - $7.50 per gram if you take the
entire 300 grams

I have put pictures of the rough and stones cut from it on the web -
check it out at: http://www.wintershill.com/rough

You can email me (Richard) for more info or ?'s at: wntrhill@somtel.com


RRGaetan GEM BROKERS < "Quality gem rough for discriminating gem-cutters."
We serve hand-select (and bulk/parcels, too!), affordable, quality gem rough
in a variety of materials. Our most recent arrivals: Aug. 2 ­ Aquamarine,
Spessartite and Tourmaline. For details and a colorful, interactive e-flyer
(PDF), email rrgaetan@san.rr.com and ask for "The Rough List."


Hello all, I still have a Xristal-Tek87 for sale. I am reducing the price
because I really have to sell this fine machine. I have cut maybe 15 stones
on it. It is basically brand new and in perfect condition. It has the 8"
adapter ring on it and the dial indicator. It is a very sturdy rugged
machine. I am reducing the price to $900 and will still consider all

Thank you,
David Creviston
Atlanta, Georgia


IFA Faceters Digest Members:

I am now accepting cutting orders for high quality American Facetting
specializing in Barions and Portuguese Cuts as well as repairs. I am
32 have been cutting for 15 years and have been recently laid off from
my company where I was a medical software salesman. So now it's back to
gemcutting and jewelry. I also offer extremely reliable, high quality
overseas cutting to your diagrams and specs with a 4-6 week turn around.
Diamond cutting and repair available two, including recutting of
chipped melee. Please contact Tyler Allen Atlanta GA
770-393-2547 t.allen@mindspring.com



CALIFORNIA (Southern): All persons in the Greater Riverside area (of
Southern California) are invited to attend our faceting classes and "get
togethers" which are held once per month. If you would like to join us and
meet fellow faceters, please contact me anytime at: paulahlstedt@earthlink.net ~
Paul Ahlstedt

KANSAS: If anyone in the central portion of the country from Oklahoma city
to Wichita to Kansas City would be interested in forming something like the
Flatland Facet Guild or some such name give me a line at
Larry W. Davis

ILLINOIS - MISSOURI (Central Area, hubed around St. Louis, Missouri) A
group of 4 faceters have met and we had a great time. We intend to meet
again and would like to have fellow faceters join our group. I received an
email from another Newbie that expressed interest in attending our next get
together. Faceters from any and all areas are welcome... It's swell to meet
personally and exchange tips and hints! COME JOIN OUR GROUP! It's FREE! ;o)
Doug Smith, Alton, IL .at: gembin@spiff.net

INDIANA: I moved to Valparaiso, (Northwest) Indiana, about three years ago.
Are there any clubs in this area? or is there anyone interested in starting
one? I do faceting and some cabbing. Not much here but cornfields. Nice
scenery, but I get sooooooo lonely. LOL Let me know. (Bill) "William
J.Pysnack" <wjpin@home.com>

S.E. LOUISIANA: Anyone in or around the New Orleans, LA area wishing to
form a club or have get togethers for faceting, discussions, cabbing,
procurement, etc. Please contact me via email @ tbird@bayouself.org. (Thom
Bird - Chalmette, LA)

MISSISSIPPI: If anyone is near Meridian Mississippi and would be interested
in forming some kind of club or just get together with faceting and/or
cabbing please e-mail me at jennings@netdoor.com Thanks, Jim

TEXAS: Anyone in the Corpus Christi or Coastal Bend area that is interested
in starting a local faceter's guild contact me at: hankswan@earthlink.net or
gemscc@msn.com or telephone 361-857-2405 (days) or 361-992-1296
(evenings).Hank swan

WASHINGTON DC.(Rockville Md area) Looking for folks to get together
occasionally to facet. I have just started faceting and am also interested
in sphere making (infinate # of facets) Robert Winfield

Lurking is fine, but participation is more fun!! Get involved!!

IFA Faceter's Digest Staff ~

Thurmond Moore III/ Moderator

Fred Ward / Moderator - Gemology

Jill St. Michael / Design & Technical Advisor

Tempie Francis, Attorney at Law / Legal Advisor


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