INTERNATIONAL FACETER'S ASSOCIATION
IFA FACETER'S DIGEST
Vol. 2, Issue No. 152 - Friday October 4, 2002
Click here to post to the list:
Subscriptions and List FAQ
Published Monday thru Friday, except holidays
from deep in the heart of rural Texas
The IFA Faceter's Digest is professionally moderated by:
Thurmond Moore III & Fred Ward (Gemology)
-== IFA FACETER'S DIGEST ==-
"Making the world sparkle, one stone at a time."
Index to Today's Digest
01 Re: Certs
02 Re: Laps!
03 Re: stone certification and valuation
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 16:03:53 -0700
From: "Paul T. Ahlstedt"<email@example.com>
""Fred you have lots experience with certs
whats your view?""
I have a couple of additional observations about certs.
One is that they are
very subjective, and I am aware of at least one lab that heavily
certs in favor of the seller.
Another is that I find that when I am dealing in very
high end stones, the
buyer usually shows up with a portable lab anyway, so the cert is
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 19:34:32 -0400
From: "Jonathan L. Rolfe" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
At 06:09 PM 10/3/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>I found that it was difficult to find laps
>that were true and very few machine shops capable of carrying
> I must congratulate Jon Rolfe on his flat BATT laps use them
a lot on
>finishing the harder stones.
Thanks! I love hearing this at the end of a post where the writer
particular about his laps!
This has been a good week for hearing nice things! Tom Herbst got
laser interferometer, and did some consumer testing on the claims
of a BATT
lap producing flat facets, with one of his stones.
When I saw his mail come in, I had a sinking feeling.."On No..don't
the mail warped a lap or something"...The title was "BATT
Thanks for Tom for the testing, and allowing me to host the HTML
report. See http://www.battlap.info/FlatBATT.html
In this business, you never know what someone's Day Job might be-They
even have a new interferometer!
One of the things that makes the online lists work so well is the
amount of "Other" skills gemcutters collectively have.
We are bakers,
septic tank pumpers, electricians, doctors, clergy...anything one
imagine. So we get answers from every perspective.
Hi Jon, Love the Redwing, It is a thing of beauty.
I will be breaking it in this
Subject: Re: stone certification and valuation
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 01:31:49 -0700
From: Tony <email@example.com>
When I first started cutting I started to wonder what
had in cut stones and decided to invest in some paper from an
independent appraiser. I was directed to a gentleman of some
repute that proceeded to inform me that prices of custom cut
stones and therefore their ultimate value are my domain not his.
An appraiser can only compare what is shown them with that which
they know is available and for how much. If I produce a unique
gemstone then I am the only person that knows the real costs and
consequentially the real wholesale value. That amount is quite
simply what I would charge for another stone to match or replace
Now for the good bit. You provide the provenance and
value certificate for the loose unmounted stone. You do not need
to pass any exams and you are not going to be placed in a
suable position by issuing such a cert. What the cutters
certificate will do is provide an independent appraiser with all
of the details needed to provide insurance replacement
documentation. I like to go overboard here as the more
meticulous the detailing the more credible the cert will be.
Make it as spiffy as you can. Ink jet printer on certificate
paper is quite spiff.
Rough vendor and date: (someone to blame)
Material sold to you as : (passing the buck)
Rough description with weights and measurements, Location,
species and variety.
Weights and Measurements and date of finished gem:
Design name, Author and execution time: (how long
it took not
when you intend doing away with the designer)
Number of facets on the stone : ( Amazingly people
love this one
if the number is big and faceted girdles give big numbers)
Angles used on facets: (Yes you will find appraisers
know the names of all the facets we use)
Name of the stone: (Yes you will feel pretentious,
all of us on
the list will think you pretentious, however your customer will
love it and list members don't buy cut stones)
Care and Maintenace; (helpful hints and cleaning tips)
Scientific blah blah: Latin names, chemical names
atomic weight, associated varieties, world locations and any
other sciency filler.
Metaphysical blah blah: (Not just the 'healy feely'
reality addicts also enjoy this stuff)
If you still have any room or have decided to attach
you could also provide the cutting diagrams and instructions,
The copyright issues on some designs would have to be explored
but I don't have Gemcad or any design software so I don't do
The valuation should include some wording like this;
Replacement value shown includes the industry standard handling
and stocking charges accepted by the majority of the jewellery
trade as applied to the loose stone only and does not include
the value of any metalwork, setting costs or other jewellers
How much? As I said. the amount you want for doing
it again and
being happy about it. Not how much you charged this time. Now
double it to cover the jewellers 'handling charges'. That is the
replacement value, simple.
Date and sign your name as the gemcutter and give
date of the valuation, You may not want to do it for that price
5 years hence but it should be good for 1 or 2. Most important
is clearly showing the certification fee, even if you didn't
charge for the service this time, you need to show the value of
your documenting, cutting and gem knowledge. Nothing below
US.$25 should be considered. Add any disclaimers you feel
necessary, such as; not an offer to purchase, not an offer to
supply, cert cannot be used as a selling tool etc.
Just in case you think this is all rather arrogant
many of the top gemmologists and appraisers in the country have
cut more stones than you have. Not many I'd wager. You are not
selling a commodity you have created an art object and this is
how you sign it. How many jewellery owners know the name of the
person that cut their gems. That knowledge has a cash value,
don't give it away or squander it. No stone should leave your
shop without a cert.
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 06:13:36 -0500
From: "David Ault" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
In regards to Don's opal. Paul Downing wrote a book
on opals a few years
back that has been incorporated into the guide as the standard for
appraising opals. Your stone would be a crystal opal for the type
An unusual pattern to the play of fire can affect value. There is
a scale of
values from there that is based on type of play of color [ blue,
greenblue, bluegreen etc]and brightness of the play of color. The
the cut and is it calibrated or not is another consideration. The
problem with this system is that you absolutely must have a set
stones for the brightness levels. I say so and so does the author----
believe it. This system gives you an exact grade that will allow
competent graders to arrive at the same exact grading and will end
on grading opals. Once you have this system and learn to use it
find that your "expert GIA grads" will be calling you
to tell them about
what they are trying to appraise. I have told and shown some grads
Nashville this system and they love it. The only problem is that
to a man
they refuse to get a set of reference stones to grade by so what
they do is
subjective and not based on the authors standards. I do not know
disconnect is in gia grad minds around here but it exists. As an
this I sometimes like to interpret initials . After dealing with
and the GIA home office I decided for instance that GIA stood for
Incompetent --------. I will let you fill in the blanks. You CAN
WITHOUT REFERENCE STONES. Did I mention that before? Dave Ault
RESOURCES FOR FACETER'S ~
Bombay Bazaar - (800)678-8450
Fac-Ette Manufacturing Company: (910)256-9248
Raytech Industries: http://www.raytech-ind.com
Rock Peddler: 1-800-416-4348 / www.rockpeddler.com
RESOURCES FOR GEMOLOGISTS ~
Accredited Gemologists Association, http://aga.polygon.net/
American Gem Society, (AGS) 702-255-6500
American Gem Trade Association, (AGTA) http://www.agta.org
Gemmological Assc. & GTL / Great Britain, http://www.gagtl.ac.uk/gagtl
Gemmological Association of Australia, http://www.gem.org.au
Gemological Institute of America, (GIA) http://www.gia.edu.giagem
International Gem Society (IGS) web site is: http://www.gemsociety.org
International Colored Gemstone Association, http://www.gemstone.org
FACETING GUILDS (Alphabetically, World) ~
*Charleston Faceting Guild, South Carolina, email@example.com.
*Columbia-Willamette Faceter's Guild, http://www.facetersguild.com/
*Danish Faceters Guild, http://medlem.spray.se/danfacet/
*East/Central Florida:Tomoka Gem and Mineral Society's Faceters
Don Cameron: firstname.lastname@example.org
*Eastern Mass Faceter's Group, email@example.com
*Faceter's Forum Society-LaPorte, IN VESteele@aol.com
*Faceter's Guild of N. California, Wayne Meissner, firstname.lastname@example.org
*Faceter's Guild of S. California, Jerry W. Carroll, (818)348-6327
*Intermountain Faceter's Guild, Carl M. Unruh, (360)385-3753
*Midwest Faceter's Guild, E-mail: email@example.com
*Mid-Williamette Faceters Guild, Albany, Oregon, Michael E. Bumcrot;
E-mail @ MBumcrot@valleyoilco.com
*Moreton Bay is a branch of the Australian Facetors' Guild, Brisbane,
*New Mexico Faceter's Guild, Nancy Attaway, firstname.lastname@example.org
*North Puget Sound Faceting Guild, Keith Wyman, email@example.com
*Tacoma Faceting Guild, Chuck Bloch firstname.lastname@example.org
*Texas Faceter's Guild, Jill Rowlands, email@example.com
*Seattle Faceting Club (LeonardBahr@prodigy.net)
*Vancouver Island Faceters' Guild - British Columbia, Canada.
(Add your faceting organization here, US or International
- Write to
QUICK LINKS TO DIGEST ACTIVITIES ~
IFA Faceter's Digest Virtual Faceting Class:
IFA Faceter's Digest Member's Showcase:
IFA Faceter's Digest Gemcad Page:
IFA Faceter's Digest Promotion Page:
IFA Faceter's Digest Microscope Lab:
IFA Faceter's Digest Home
IFA Faceter's Digest Temporary Discussion Page:
Tomoka Gem and Mineral Society's annual show will
be held on Dec. 14 and 15 at
the Volusia County Fairgrounds, located on state route 44 in Deland,
Fairgrounds are 1 mile east of interstate route 4 at exit 118. We
will have at
least one showcase of faceted gems done by our members. Thank you,
~ NORTH CAROLINA
GASTON COUNTY GEM & MINERAL CLUB'S 24th ANNUAL
SHOW & SALE, OCTOBER 4, 5, &
6, 2002. FRIDAY, SATURDAY, SUNDAY 9 AM - 6PM FREE ADMISSION. Dallas
279 -DALLAS CHERRYVILLE HWY DALLAS, NORTH CAROLINA. MINERAL AND
SPECIMENS FROM AROUND THE WORLD..JEWELRY..QUALITY GEMSTONES &
MATERIAL, STONE SETTING, WIRE WRAPPING, AND CUTTING STONES..GOLDSMITH
PREMISES. GEODES SOLD AND OPENED. CHILDREN'S ACTIVITIES & Hourly
Sep 28-29 Downey. 52nd annual Delvers Gem& Mineral
Soc. Women's Club
of Downey, 9813 Paramount Blvd. Free admission. Facet rough available
will include Benitoite, sapphires from Montana, Australia and southeast
blue and colorless topaz, 4Peaks amethyst,several citrines, ametrine,
sunstone, tourmaline and much more. Vargas books and laps also available.
FACETERS SYMPOSIUM 2003
Presented by the Faceter's Guild of Southern California
At the Seaside GEMboree AFMS/CFMS Convention & Show
Ventura, California June 6-7-8, 2003
You are invited to participate in the Faceters
Symposium 2003 which will be held at the Seaside Park
(Ventura Fairgrounds) at Ventura, California during the
AFMS/CFMS Convention & Show. The Faceters Symposium dates
are June 6th, 7th, & 8th. That is Friday, Saturday, &
Sunday. The CFMS GEMboree is on those dates as well as on
Thursday the 5th of June. All of this is at the same
location, just a hundred yards from the beach.
The Faceters Symposium will feature ten speakers,
will have presentations covering various parts of gemstone
faceting interests. A Hospitality Hour on Friday evening
and a Saturday Awards Luncheon are also part of the
Symposium. There will be competitions at the Novice,
Advanced, & Masters levels. Get started on your
competition entry soon.
The CFMS GEMboree itself will have buildings that
exhibits on display, dealers with their wares to offer,
demonstrators to show how it is done, and speakers with
presentations covering other lapidary fields of interest.
For information & costs regarding the Faceters
Symposium (including competition information), your contact
is listed below. Ask for one of the Packets. Be sure to
state your snail mailing address so that a Packet can be
mailed to you.
Glenn Klein, Chairman
24001 Muirlands Blvd., Space #79
Lake Forest, CA 92630 email: firstname.lastname@example.org
TODAY'S FUNNY ~
A Post Office worker at the main sorting office finds
poorly hand-written envelope addressed to God. He opens it and
discovers it is from an elderly lady, distressed because some thief
robbed her of 100 dollars. She will be cold and hungry for the rest
of the month if she doesn't receive some divine intervention.
The worker organizes a collection amongst the other
who dig deep and come up with 96 dollars. They get it to her by
special courier the same morning.
A week later, the same postal worker recognizes the
same hand on
another envelope. He opens it and reads: "Dear God, Thank you
the 100 dollars. This month would have been so bleak otherwise.
P.S. It was four dollars short but that was probably those thieves
at the Post Office."
REFLECTIONS AND TIDBITS:
" Most people give up what they want out of life
Because they give in to the moment."
--- Author Unknown ---
Must sell the following rough - no reasonable offer
Rose Malaya Garnet - deep red, eye clean african material
- 1 kg available -
$2.00/gram for quantities of 500 grams or more
Red Zircon - eye clean african material - 300g available
- $2.00/gram if you
take the entire 300 grams
Spessartite Orange Garnet - slightly to moderately
material - Ranges from 1.5 - 3 cts size - $7.50 per gram if you
entire 300 grams
I have put pictures of the rough and stones cut from
it on the web -
check it out at: http://www.wintershill.com/rough
You can email me (Richard) for more info or ?'s at:
RRGaetan GEM BROKERS < "Quality gem rough
for discriminating gem-cutters."
We serve hand-select (and bulk/parcels, too!), affordable, quality
in a variety of materials. Our most recent arrivals: Aug. 2
Spessartite and Tourmaline. For details and a colorful, interactive
(PDF), email email@example.com and ask for "The Rough List."
Hello all, I still have a Xristal-Tek87 for sale.
I am reducing the price
because I really have to sell this fine machine. I have cut maybe
on it. It is basically brand new and in perfect condition. It has
adapter ring on it and the dial indicator. It is a very sturdy rugged
machine. I am reducing the price to $900 and will still consider
IFA Faceters Digest Members:
I am now accepting cutting orders for high quality
specializing in Barions and Portuguese Cuts as well as repairs.
32 have been cutting for 15 years and have been recently laid off
my company where I was a medical software salesman. So now it's
gemcutting and jewelry. I also offer extremely reliable, high quality
overseas cutting to your diagrams and specs with a 4-6 week turn
Diamond cutting and repair available two, including recutting of
chipped melee. Please contact Tyler Allen Atlanta GA
IFA FACETER'S DIGEST PERSONALS:
CALIFORNIA (Southern): All persons in the Greater
Riverside area (of
Southern California) are invited to attend our faceting classes
togethers" which are held once per month. If you would like
to join us and
meet fellow faceters, please contact me anytime at: firstname.lastname@example.org
KANSAS: If anyone in the central portion of the country
from Oklahoma city
to Wichita to Kansas City would be interested in forming something
Flatland Facet Guild or some such name give me a line at
Larry W. Davis
ILLINOIS - MISSOURI (Central Area, hubed around St.
Louis, Missouri) A
group of 4 faceters have met and we had a great time. We intend
again and would like to have fellow faceters join our group. I received
email from another Newbie that expressed interest in attending our
together. Faceters from any and all areas are welcome... It's swell
personally and exchange tips and hints! COME JOIN OUR GROUP! It's
Doug Smith, Alton, IL .at: email@example.com
INDIANA: I moved to Valparaiso, (Northwest) Indiana,
about three years ago.
Are there any clubs in this area? or is there anyone interested
one? I do faceting and some cabbing. Not much here but cornfields.
scenery, but I get sooooooo lonely. LOL Let me know. (Bill) "William
S.E. LOUISIANA: Anyone in or around the New Orleans,
LA area wishing to
form a club or have get togethers for faceting, discussions, cabbing,
procurement, etc. Please contact me via email @ firstname.lastname@example.org.
Bird - Chalmette, LA)
MISSISSIPPI: If anyone is near Meridian Mississippi
and would be interested
in forming some kind of club or just get together with faceting
cabbing please e-mail me at email@example.com Thanks, Jim
TEXAS: Anyone in the Corpus Christi or Coastal Bend
area that is interested
in starting a local faceter's guild contact me at: firstname.lastname@example.org
email@example.com or telephone 361-857-2405 (days) or 361-992-1296
WASHINGTON DC.(Rockville Md area) Looking for folks
to get together
occasionally to facet. I have just started faceting and am also
in sphere making (infinate # of facets) Robert Winfield
Lurking is fine, but participation is more fun!! Get involved!!
IFA Faceter's Digest Staff ~
Thurmond Moore III/ Moderator
Fred Ward / Moderator - Gemology
Jill St. Michael / Design & Technical Advisor
Tempie Francis, Attorney at Law / Legal Advisor
The IFA Faceter's Digest is never sent unsolicited.
You are receiving it
because you subscribed to it at our digest subscription page at:
List Policy ~
The IFA Faceter's Digest (formerly the Gemking Daily
Faceter Digest) has a
strict "zero tolerance" policy in regard to email harvesting
and spam. Any
member found to harvest digest email for addresses for the purpose
sending unsolicited advertisements or invitations, will be removed
list and reported to the proper authorities. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES
offending members be allowed to rejoin the list once they are banned,
will persons known to harvest and spam be allowed to join the IFA
The posts submitted and contained in the IFA Faceter's
Digest are the
express opinions of the author who submitted the post and do not
reflect the views of the listowner and/or moderators, editor, any
person associated with distribution of the IFA Faceter's Digest
or any of
Share your love of faceting with a friend!
The IFA Faceter's Digest is never sent unsolicited.
You are receiving it
because you subscribed to it.
To unsubscribe, just use the link below and follow
the instructions there: