Vol. 2, Issue No. 149 - Tuesday October 1, 2002
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Published Monday thru Friday, except holidays
from deep in the heart of rural Texas
The IFA Faceter's Digest is professionally moderated by:
Thurmond Moore III & Fred Ward (Gemology)


"Making the world sparkle, one stone at a time."

From the Moderator

Hi all, Sorry I have not had the time to comment concerning
incorporation. I am also a board member and field trip chairman
or the Lubbock Gem and Mineral Society which is 70 miles from
here and I have been involved in operation of our booth at the
South Plains Fair. That is over now so back to business.

I totally agreee that government is way too big today and I never
intended to look for "Government handouts".

There are many funding opportunities from the private sector and big
business that I am investigating, however, it seems to me that as long
as the Government is funding the arts, they might as well fund something
"real" instead of some of the perverse "art forms" that have been funded
in the last few years with our tax money. I do pay wage taxes (against my wishes),
I don't have children and I know I am tired like the rest of paying to subsidize the
"activities" of other groups so I agree completely that large government must
cease to exist, but until that can be accomplished wouldn't you prefer some of
your tax money be spent on the things you like?

Government is NOT OVER US but under us in the scheme of things. Why do
we continue to let OUR EMPLOYEES dictate to us? No one should ask the
government for anything. Employees (governments) are TOLD by their
EMPLOYEER's (Citizens) how to work and what to work on.

OK Soapbox mode OFF. LOL


Index to Today's Digest

01 Re: wax lap
03 Midwest Federation Show
04 REE's and Radon
05 Re: government funding
06 Re: incorporation
07 Re: Dimensions



Subject: wax lap
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 22:42:49 -0500
To: "Facet Digest" <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Larry Davis" <ldavis32@cox.net>

The razor blade is fixed onto a dop and acts as any knife edge to take wax
off the lap a little at a time.

Mount it so that the blade is parallel to the lap surface and pointing the
direction away or that is in the direction the lap is turning not into the rotation
direction. The long axis of the blade should be going from the lap spindle hole
toward the outer edge or that is at right angles to the spindle.

Pictures are worth a thousand words.




Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 22:52:35 -0500
To: IFA <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: gembin <gembin@spiff.net>

Hi Thurmond,

Why is your attorney suggesting you form a corporation? Is it to limit personal
liability, or some other reason? Although I have been licensed to sell
securities, and involved in the formation of several million dollar
corporations, I'm no attorney. However, I have been under the assumption that
all members of an association can be liable in the case of a lawsuit. As
"subscribers" or "list members" of the IFA, are we equally "owners" and liable
in case of a lawsuit if the IFA is not a corporation? Are just the owner and
board liable? Or assuming the owner and board have "kept their noses clean", is
just the IFA's assets liable? Likewise, if a corporation is formed, assuming
the owner and board have "kept their noses clean", is just the IFA's assets liable?
If any of the above is so, don't forget we now are in a "sue happy" society. It
seems that some people will sue at the drop of a hat.

There are many pros & cons of forming corporations. Unless you are well advised
about all the ramifications about forming a corporation, I believe it would be
wise to investigate it thoroughly, i.e.; cost, paperwork, forms, records,
timely reports, governmental regulations, etc. Who is to pay for it and also be
involved in the continuing costs of resulting labor duties, governmental taxes,
fees and attorney fees? Assuming you are well versed in this area, and it is to
limit liability, and it is presented to the "list members" and meets their
approval, I would be in favor of the IFA forming a corporation. I would also
list the objectives of the corporation to have broad specific fields of
endeavor for the purposes such as you mentioned in your outline.

Best Regards,
Doug "Rhodolite" Smith
Alton, IL, USA


Subject: Midwest Federation Show
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 23:50:09 -0500
To: IFA <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: gembin <gembin@spiff.net>

Hello Fellow Faceters,

Wilma and I will be at the Springfield, IL, Midwest Federation Show, sponsored
by the local club Lincoln Orbit Earth Society, ["Sue (the T-Rex) And You In
2002"], at the Illinois State Fairgrounds, Illinois Building, 9th St. &
Sangamon, Springfield, IL., Friday - Sunday, October 4th - 6th, 2002.

We will register about 9:30 AM Saturday, Oct. 5th for 1 night at the Mansion
View Inn, 529 South Fourth Street, Springfield, Illinois, 62701. Phone:
217-544-7411, and check out Sunday noon and be leaving Springfield about 7 PM
Sunday evening.

We will probably get to the show about 10 AM to 11 AM Saturday. Wilma and I are
looking forward to getting together and meeting all of you fellow faceters.

Give us a holler..
Doug "Rhodolite" Smith
Alton, Illinois, USA


Subject: REE's and Radon
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 22:06:11 -0700
To: faceters@caprock-spur.com
From: "Paul T. Ahlstedt"<paulahlstedt@earthlink.net>

""The pegmatites in New England are a mixed blessing..On one hand we have the
Newry Maine tourmalines, but pegmatites are also the sources of REE bearing
minerals like monazites, and some of them cause trouble, especially with
people who have foundations poured on the pegmatite bedrock, or with
artesian well into the rock.""

Hi Jonathan,

That is one of the problems here where I live on this granitic mountain - the
well water contains radionuclides, and our particular supply contains .33
picocuries per liter. There was one well that was nearly 20.0, which is over
EPA standards - and was shut down, but not before 5 million gallons were piped
into town (before I lived here, and we are on another well system). All the
water here is well obviously, and our wells are currently in bad shape because
of many years of below average rainfall and snow.

Radon can be a real problem in such areas as well, and daughter products such
as polonium are the real danger as they emit high levels of ionizing
radiation. Not many people know this though, and simply move to an area
without researching this - only did we as a couple of chemists bring this to
light on the list. It is a serious problem though, and I believe that anyone
that lives on granitic rock of any type should have a radon test done.

Jon, you can correct me on this, but I believe from memory that over 20 piC/L
radon is a serious problem that needs to be addressed. I did an article on
this in relation to our study of the Lakeview Mountains pegmatites here many
years ago, and I believe that was the stated EPA danger levels sited by my
research materials.

The odd thing is that I collected and studied REE's for many years, and have
quite a collection of them - most of which went to the Los Angeles County
Museum, and the San Bernardino County Museum under the direction of Dr.
Anthony Kampf and Bob Reynolds respectively. The specimens that I have left
live outside!

Here is a trivia question for everyone:

Q: The monazite from a certain well known locality can be faceted. Why, and
what is the location??



Subject: government funding
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 04:50:25 -0500
To: <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "David Ault" <fieldweld@surfmore.net>

I agree wholeheartedly with Jerry re govt funds. If I want part of my
neighbors or coworkers money I will ask them directly for it and allow them
to make a judgement on giving it to me. I find it very disstasteful to
consider making my neighbor or coworkers pay with the threat and promise of
a government thug appearing at their door if they do not . Ask people for
money if you want it. Do not steal someones wealth just to fund what you
want. One of the reasons I am having real moral trouble with my church is
because one of the elders is a welfare parasite getting Tenncare at my
expense. While he talks about getting his new bassboat. I am very tired of
paying for others wants. When I want something I figure out how I can do it
on my own and do not plunder others. If my ability is lacking and I cannot
do it thats just too bad. Not everyone can be Bill Gates. Tell the lawyer to
go and advise you how you can earn the things the group wants and take the
idea of plunder and put it where the sun does not shine. What ever happened
to the work ethic in this country anyway, can somebody please tell me?

Dave not a bum Ault


Subject: incorporation
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:31:08 -0400
To: "faceter's digest" <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Doug Dover" <ddover@carolina.rr.com>

I have to agree with Jerry's post in yesterdays digest. As a simple internet
discussion group we are flying below the government radar. Incorporation and
grant requests will change all of that. I think there is far too much
intervention into my daily life by the government already to want that big
nose stuck into my hobby. They are already shoulder deep in my shooting
activities and deeply enough involved in faceting through tariffs and taxes
on imports. The reason we are looking at the highest percentage of
population imprisoned of any developed country is because of government
intervention into what should only be people's private lives. If people are
really interested in furthering our hobby, I feel that my club has made a
strong move in that direction. We recently had one of the founders of our
club die and wanted to start up some kind of memorial for him. We contacted
the local community college and got information on setting up a scholarship.
We now have the James H. Lynn memorial scholarship for students of earth
science. It is not endowed yet but we direct our fundraising to that goal.
We are in the process of opening the scholarship to outside parties making
contributions. He was a teacher, astronomer and rock hound.

I personally feel that it takes more than wearing a cabochon encrusted bolo
tie once a year to qualify as a rock hound. If you want to help out become
more involved on a local level. You should make it known that you would be
willing to become an officer in your local club! If no new officers are
needed (they ALWAYS are), try to start up a community outreach. As part of
our annual show we make sure that ALL local schools are aware that there is
a scientific field trip that children will really enjoy. We encourage
community participation by charging NO admission charge. I find it
disturbing that some clubs will charge over $5.00 per person to simply come
into a building to look at rocks. Every show I have been involved with
breaks even on their display costs from vendor fees. It seems like gouging
to me to try to balance a budget from admission only. Our club has a booth
at the show and all profits are directed to the scholarship, as well as
other fund raisers through out the year. The booth is filled with overflow
materials from members.

I have drifted from the original thought but, I do not want us incorporated.

Doug Dover
Belmont, NC


Subject: Dimensions
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:28:01 -0500
To: "IFA Faceters Digest Post" <faceters@caprock-spur.com>
From: "Robert Strickland" <robstr@sbcglobal.net>

Sajjad wrote:
> With the continuos study of IFA digest
>I have started cutting. In this case I know all
>The abbreviation in the designs, but I did not
>Know the measurement in the following table
> Please help me in this line.
>L/W = 1.000 T/W = 0.196 T/L = 0.196
>P/W = 0.449 C/W = 0.195
>H/W = (P+C)/W+0.02 = 0.664
>P/H = 0.676 C/H = 0.294
>Vol./W^3 = 0.257

These numerical dimensions refer to labeled dimension lines
with arrows on the diagram. The dimensions usually labeled

W width
L length
C crown height
P pavilion depth
T table length
U table width

The dimension lines have two arrows with a label in the
middle. The label refers to the distance between the tips of
the arrows. All of these dimensions are given in terms of
fractions. For instance L/W means L divided by W.
Why? Because all stones are not the same size. The same
diagram can be used for a 5 mm stone or a 10 mm stone.
Even though L is twice as big, L/W is still the same for
both stones. In GemCad, www.gemcad.com , the
computer program used to create most of these diagrams,
all of these dimensions are measured parallel to an edge
of the paper. L is always greater than W, so L/W is
always bigger than 1. The formula

H/W = (P+C)/W+0.02

refers to the height of the stone divided by the width
of the stone, allowing for a girdle thickness that is 2%
of W.

The Vol./W^3 = 0.257 refers to the volume of the
stone. If you know W and the specific gravity of the
stone, you can convert this to carat weight using the

carat weight = Vol./W^3 x W x W x W x s.g. x 0.005


Vol./W^3 is the volume fraction number
(0.257 in the example)
W is the width of the stone in mm
s.g. is the specific gravity of the stone in grams/cc
x means multiply

What are all of these numbers good for? They allow
you to match the dimensions of your rough to the
diagram. For instance if your rough is 7 by 11
mm, 11 divided by 7 is 1.571. A diagram with
L/W = 1.25 would waste a lot of rough and would
produce a stone of only 7 by 8.8 mm. Similarly, the
C/W dimension can help you figure out if you have
enough rough left to cut the crown after you cut the




Bombay Bazaar - (800)678-8450
Facetron: http://www.facetron.com/
Graves: http://www.rockhounds.com/graves/
MDR: http://www.mdr-facet.com/
Polymetric: http://www.polymetricinc.com/
Ultra-tec: info@ultratec-facet.com
Fac-Ette Manufacturing Company: (910)256-9248
http://www.fac-ette.com/ 800-336-9248.
Raytech Industries: http://www.raytech-ind.com
Rock Peddler: 1-800-416-4348 / www.rockpeddler.com



Accredited Gemologists Association, http://aga.polygon.net/
American Gem Society, (AGS) 702-255-6500
American Gem Trade Association, (AGTA) http://www.agta.org
Gemmological Assc. & GTL / Great Britain, http://www.gagtl.ac.uk/gagtl
Gemmological Association of Australia, http://www.gem.org.au
Gemological Institute of America, (GIA) http://www.gia.edu.giagem
International Gem Society (IGS) web site is: http://www.gemsociety.org
International Colored Gemstone Association, http://www.gemstone.org


FACETING GUILDS (Alphabetically, World) ~

*Charleston Faceting Guild, South Carolina, wmcnay@mindspring.com.
*Columbia-Willamette Faceter's Guild, http://www.facetersguild.com/
*Danish Faceters Guild, http://medlem.spray.se/danfacet/
*East/Central Florida:Tomoka Gem and Mineral Society's Faceters Guild,
Don Cameron: ghgemcutter@earthlink.net
*Eastern Mass Faceter's Group, rockpeddler@attbi.com
*Faceter's Forum Society-LaPorte, IN VESteele@aol.com
*Faceter's Guild of N. California, Wayne Meissner, lklomp@cnetech.com
*Faceter's Guild of S. California, Jerry W. Carroll, (818)348-6327
*Intermountain Faceter's Guild, Carl M. Unruh, (360)385-3753
*Midwest Faceter's Guild, E-mail: tgibbs@compuserve.com
*Mid-Williamette Faceters Guild, Albany, Oregon, Michael E. Bumcrot;
E-mail @ MBumcrot@valleyoilco.com
*Moreton Bay is a branch of the Australian Facetors' Guild, Brisbane,
Queensland. http://cwpp.slq.qld.gov.au/afg
*New Mexico Faceter's Guild, Nancy Attaway, attaway@highfiber.com
*North Puget Sound Faceting Guild, Keith Wyman, tfw@fidalgo.net
*Tacoma Faceting Guild, Chuck Bloch chuck_b@prodigy.net
*Texas Faceter's Guild, Jill Rowlands, gemsbyj@aol.com
*Seattle Faceting Club (LeonardBahr@prodigy.net)
*Vancouver Island Faceters' Guild - British Columbia, Canada.

(Add your faceting organization here, US or International - Write to
owner-faceters@caprock-spur.com )



IFA Faceter's Digest Virtual Faceting Class:

IFA Faceter's Digest Member's Showcase:

IFA Faceter's Digest Gemcad Page:

IFA Faceter's Digest Promotion Page:

IFA Faceter's Digest Microscope Lab:

IFA Faceter's Digest Home

IFA Faceter's Digest Temporary Discussion Page:




Tomoka Gem and Mineral Society's annual show will be held on Dec. 14 and 15 at
the Volusia County Fairgrounds, located on state route 44 in Deland, Florida.
Fairgrounds are 1 mile east of interstate route 4 at exit 118. We will have at
least one showcase of faceted gems done by our members. Thank you, John Withey


for Prizes!!



Sep 28-29 Downey. 52nd annual Delvers Gem& Mineral Soc. Women's Club
of Downey, 9813 Paramount Blvd. Free admission. Facet rough available
will include Benitoite, sapphires from Montana, Australia and southeast Asia,
blue and colorless topaz, 4Peaks amethyst,several citrines, ametrine,
sunstone, tourmaline and much more. Vargas books and laps also available.


Presented by the Faceter's Guild of Southern California
At the Seaside GEMboree AFMS/CFMS Convention & Show
Ventura, California June 6-7-8, 2003

You are invited to participate in the Faceters
Symposium 2003 which will be held at the Seaside Park
(Ventura Fairgrounds) at Ventura, California during the
AFMS/CFMS Convention & Show. The Faceters Symposium dates
are June 6th, 7th, & 8th. That is Friday, Saturday, &
Sunday. The CFMS GEMboree is on those dates as well as on
Thursday the 5th of June. All of this is at the same
location, just a hundred yards from the beach.

The Faceters Symposium will feature ten speakers, who
will have presentations covering various parts of gemstone
faceting interests. A Hospitality Hour on Friday evening
and a Saturday Awards Luncheon are also part of the
Symposium. There will be competitions at the Novice,
Advanced, & Masters levels. Get started on your
competition entry soon.

The CFMS GEMboree itself will have buildings that have
exhibits on display, dealers with their wares to offer,
demonstrators to show how it is done, and speakers with
presentations covering other lapidary fields of interest.

For information & costs regarding the Faceters
Symposium (including competition information), your contact
is listed below. Ask for one of the Packets. Be sure to
state your snail mailing address so that a Packet can be
mailed to you.

Glenn Klein, Chairman
24001 Muirlands Blvd., Space #79
Lake Forest, CA 92630 email: glennklein@yahoo.com



Four surgeons were taking a coffee break and were discussing their work.

The first said, "I think accountants are the easiest to operate on. You open
them up and everything inside is numbered."

The second said, "I think librarians are the easiest to operate on. You open
them up and everything inside is in alphabetical order."

The third said, "I like to operate on electricians. You open them up and
everything inside is color-coded."

The fourth surgeon said, "I like technicians...they always understand when
you have a few parts left over at the end..."



All objects in the world can be placed into one of
two categories:

- things that need to be fixed,
- things that will need to be fixed after you've had a
few minutes to play with them.



Must sell the following rough - no reasonable offer refused -

Rose Malaya Garnet - deep red, eye clean african material - 1 kg available -
$2.00/gram for quantities of 500 grams or more

Red Zircon - eye clean african material - 300g available - $2.00/gram if you
take the entire 300 grams

Spessartite Orange Garnet - slightly to moderately included African
material - Ranges from 1.5 - 3 cts size - $7.50 per gram if you take the
entire 300 grams

I have put pictures of the rough and stones cut from it on the web -
check it out at: http://www.wintershill.com/rough

You can email me (Richard) for more info or ?'s at: wntrhill@somtel.com


RRGaetan GEM BROKERS < "Quality gem rough for discriminating gem-cutters."
We serve hand-select (and bulk/parcels, too!), affordable, quality gem rough
in a variety of materials. Our most recent arrivals: Aug. 2 ­ Aquamarine,
Spessartite and Tourmaline. For details and a colorful, interactive e-flyer
(PDF), email rrgaetan@san.rr.com and ask for "The Rough List."


Hello all, I still have a Xristal-Tek87 for sale. I am reducing the price
because I really have to sell this fine machine. I have cut maybe 15 stones
on it. It is basically brand new and in perfect condition. It has the 8"
adapter ring on it and the dial indicator. It is a very sturdy rugged
machine. I am reducing the price to $900 and will still consider all

Thank you,
David Creviston
Atlanta, Georgia


IFA Faceters Digest Members:

I am now accepting cutting orders for high quality American Facetting
specializing in Barions and Portuguese Cuts as well as repairs. I am
32 have been cutting for 15 years and have been recently laid off from
my company where I was a medical software salesman. So now it's back to
gemcutting and jewelry. I also offer extremely reliable, high quality
overseas cutting to your diagrams and specs with a 4-6 week turn around.
Diamond cutting and repair available two, including recutting of
chipped melee. Please contact Tyler Allen Atlanta GA
770-393-2547 t.allen@mindspring.com



CALIFORNIA (Southern): All persons in the Greater Riverside area (of
Southern California) are invited to attend our faceting classes and "get
togethers" which are held once per month. If you would like to join us and
meet fellow faceters, please contact me anytime at: paulahlstedt@earthlink.net ~
Paul Ahlstedt

KANSAS: If anyone in the central portion of the country from Oklahoma city
to Wichita to Kansas City would be interested in forming something like the
Flatland Facet Guild or some such name give me a line at
Larry W. Davis

ILLINOIS - MISSOURI (Central Area, hubed around St. Louis, Missouri) A
group of 4 faceters have met and we had a great time. We intend to meet
again and would like to have fellow faceters join our group. I received an
email from another Newbie that expressed interest in attending our next get
together. Faceters from any and all areas are welcome... It's swell to meet
personally and exchange tips and hints! COME JOIN OUR GROUP! It's FREE! ;o)
Doug Smith, Alton, IL .at: gembin@spiff.net

INDIANA: I moved to Valparaiso, (Northwest) Indiana, about three years ago.
Are there any clubs in this area? or is there anyone interested in starting
one? I do faceting and some cabbing. Not much here but cornfields. Nice
scenery, but I get sooooooo lonely. LOL Let me know. (Bill) "William
J.Pysnack" <wjpin@home.com>

S.E. LOUISIANA: Anyone in or around the New Orleans, LA area wishing to
form a club or have get togethers for faceting, discussions, cabbing,
procurement, etc. Please contact me via email @ tbird@bayouself.org. (Thom
Bird - Chalmette, LA)

MISSISSIPPI: If anyone is near Meridian Mississippi and would be interested
in forming some kind of club or just get together with faceting and/or
cabbing please e-mail me at jennings@netdoor.com Thanks, Jim

TEXAS: Anyone in the Corpus Christi or Coastal Bend area that is interested
in starting a local faceter's guild contact me at: hankswan@earthlink.net or
gemscc@msn.com or telephone 361-857-2405 (days) or 361-992-1296
(evenings).Hank swan

WASHINGTON DC.(Rockville Md area) Looking for folks to get together
occasionally to facet. I have just started faceting and am also interested
in sphere making (infinate # of facets) Robert Winfield

Lurking is fine, but participation is more fun!! Get involved!!

IFA Faceter's Digest Staff ~

Thurmond Moore III/ Moderator

Fred Ward / Moderator - Gemology

Jill St. Michael / Design & Technical Advisor

Tempie Francis, Attorney at Law / Legal Advisor


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